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Author Topic:   THE STATUS OF WOMEN IN THE NEW TESTAMENT EPISTLES
Trump won 
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Posts: 1928
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Message 5 of 26 (59343)
10-04-2003 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Raha
10-04-2003 9:39 AM


I'm not arguing that it is a forgery or not but if it is a forgery done at such a "poor" job then why did the translators not notice this when putting the Bible into english?
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"I AM THE MESSENJAH"
contact me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
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Message 6 of 26 (59345)
10-04-2003 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Raha
10-04-2003 9:39 AM


It looks like religioustolerance.org got its information from this page:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/1716/errors.html
------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"
contact me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

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Trump won 
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Message 8 of 26 (59350)
10-04-2003 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Raha
10-04-2003 9:39 AM


I found this Q&A at another page which I feel explains it well:
quote:
I have a question in regards to 1 Corinthians 14:34. It really regards two thingsthe role of the law in the New Testament and women. I read here that Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. My question is this: Paul is so clear in Galatians and Ephesians and other texts about the role of the Old Testament regulations in New Testament life (that it has replaced with the new covenant). Then why in this text is there a reference to the Old Testament laws? This is confusing to me. I read on another site that these two verses are regarded as forgery put in by someone other than Paul.
Thanks,
Sherry
Answer: Dear Sherry,
Paul’s comments in this passage and the specific implications they may have for women have been and are interpreted, discussed and argued from many perspectives.
First, no evidence to my knowledge, supports the idea that some manuscripts do not have this passage or that it is spuriously added by a later editor and ascribed to Paul’s authority.
Second, it is absolutely imperative, as with many other passages we strive to understand, that we appreciate the literary and cultural context in which Paul wrote what he did.
The literary context: this book is a corrective epistle setting straight many matters in the church at Corinth. This chapter deals with two issuesthat of tongues and prophecywith other chapters addressing other issues. Paul places the powerful and inspiring chapters 12 and 13 in the midst of some of these corrective matters to help his immediate readers (and us) maintain their Christ-like focus and not break into polarized camps.
The cultural context: Corinth. Not a sedate backwater, but a cosmopolitan place with tolerance for many competing lifestyles and worldviews. In the midst of this a church is called to the truth of Jesus Christthe fact that there are absolutes.
Apparently the worship services at the church in Corinth were somewhat of a free-for-all. The immediate context of the statement you query notes thissee verses 26-33. We come along, in the 21st century, and try to make sense of this. We fail to understand what Paul is saying to us if we leapfrog over the first recipients of this letter. A cardinal rule of understanding the Bible is that the passage must have had meaning to its original hearers/readers, and that our view of how the passage applies to us must be based upon that understanding.
Paul is not saying that women cannot serve, that women cannot minister or that women are stupid. Paul is not saying that women are exactly the same as men in Christ, but he is saying that humankind is one in Christ. We have different functions, abilities, gifts and talents, but in terms of salvation, we are all one in Christ. You noted Paul’s powerful statements in Galatians and Ephesians to this effect.
Neither is Paul saying anywhere, nor does any New Testament writer say that the law is chopped liver. The New Testament writers, under God’s inspiration, help us to understand the implications of the law in the light of the cross and the empty tomb. There are principles in the law that are upheld in the new covenant, while almost everything in the law is modified or seen in a new lightthe Light of Jesus Christ. But Paul does not tell us to take the moral foundation of the law and trash itfor the new covenant is built upon the old.
Thus Paul appeals to the law in verse 34 in terms of the general order and roles of men and women. This does not mean that women are lesser, inferior, etc., but that there is an order (most scholars believe that Paul was speaking of Genesis 3:16, though he may also have reference to passages in Genesis 1:26 and 2:21).
The culture of that day, especially the Jewish culture, did not value women as Jesus didor consequently the church. Some Jews believed that it was a sin to teach a woman, and in some gentile areas the value given to women was not much better. Therefore, most women at that time did not have the advantage of education, and Paul’s comments for them to keep silent need to be understood in that light.
Further, the church at Corinth needed peace and order (noted in the immediate context). The topic at hand was not whether a woman could say something, but the topic concerned vigorous discussion of tongues and prophecy, and what they meant. Paul instructed that women in that culture (and possibly other cultures, depending on our interpretation of all that Paul had to say) should not participate in such discussions.
We should note that Paul is not speaking to the issue of women learning. He does not say that women should not learn. Wives apparently spoke and prayed in gatherings (see 11:5). Paul does not take issue with women helping, serving or ministering, but he does seem to argue for distinctive roles for men and womenand that, of course, is subject to interpretation by our own culture.
We (as have men and women of all cultures in the past) often see ourselves as the most progressive and enlightened. We therefore evaluate prior cultures as primitive. In some respects that may be true, but in others we should pause and consider who and what is driving our interpretation of Scripture.
In Christ,
Greg Albrecht.

This message is a reply to:
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Trump won 
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Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 9 of 26 (59351)
10-04-2003 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Brian
10-04-2003 11:09 AM


Yeah, either way.

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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 13 of 26 (59422)
10-04-2003 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Raha
10-04-2003 8:37 PM


quote:
The culture of that day, especially the Jewish culture, did not value women as Jesus didor consequently the church. Some Jews believed that it was a sin to teach a woman, and in some gentile areas the value given to women was not much better. Therefore, most women at that time did not have the advantage of education, and Paul’s comments for them to keep silent need to be understood in that light.
Further, the church at Corinth needed peace and order (noted in the immediate context). The topic at hand was not whether a woman could say something, but the topic concerned vigorous discussion of tongues and prophecy, and what they meant. Paul instructed that women in that culture (and possibly other cultures, depending on our interpretation of all that Paul had to say) should not participate in such discussions.
This makes sense to me. Comments Raha?
------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"
contact me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Raha, posted 10-04-2003 8:37 PM Raha has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Raha, posted 10-05-2003 6:23 AM Trump won has not replied

  
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