Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9162 total)
8 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 916,352 Year: 3,609/9,624 Month: 480/974 Week: 93/276 Day: 21/23 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Induction and Science
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 707 of 744 (593958)
11-30-2010 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 706 by nwr
11-30-2010 4:54 PM


Re: What would induction in science look like
How about you present a real argument.
It's your thread - how about you present one?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 706 by nwr, posted 11-30-2010 4:54 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 710 of 744 (593979)
11-30-2010 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 709 by nwr
11-30-2010 8:22 PM


Re: Try attacking inductive reasoning in science without using it.
Namely, "all observation is selective and theory-ladenthere are no pure or theory-free observations." If induction is used to form a theory, then the observations must have been made before the theory emerged.
Sorry, but that doesn't follow. That's like saying that because paint is used to make a painting, all paint must have been made before the existence of any paintings.
If observation is theory-laden, then the theory is used in making the observations, so the observations did not precede the theory.
Not so. The observations may simply have been laden with a different theory, or, Popper may be wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 709 by nwr, posted 11-30-2010 8:22 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 724 of 744 (594110)
12-01-2010 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 722 by nwr
12-01-2010 6:36 PM


Re: Why You Are Wrong
When was the last time that an accepted scientific theory was falsified?
Accepting a theory because it has not yet been falsified is a form of induction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 722 by nwr, posted 12-01-2010 6:36 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 726 by nwr, posted 12-01-2010 8:27 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 728 of 744 (594131)
12-01-2010 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 726 by nwr
12-01-2010 8:27 PM


Re: Why You Are Wrong
You have just made religion a form of induction.
Many religious claims are inductive. For instance "intelligence has been observed to be a source of complexity; thus, complexity in living organisms is the result of intelligence."
No claim has been made that induction always produces truth. Science produces accurate models by using a form of induction constrained by scientific rigor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 726 by nwr, posted 12-01-2010 8:27 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 740 of 744 (594319)
12-03-2010 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 737 by nwr
12-02-2010 7:07 PM


Re: Why are you right?
A scientific theory is, primarily, a description of the method rather than a description of the world. This ought to be obvious, since the purpose of the theory is to communicate the science.
I'm sorry but this bears no relationship to the scientific agenda.
Have you ever actually spoken to a scientist? Just curious.
If scientific theories were descriptions of methods instead of descriptions of the world, they wouldn't be able to make accurate predictions about the world - just about methods. And the purpose of science is to explain the world, not to explain itself. That kind of circular focus would produce no knowledge at all, how could it?
Once again you're up against the dilemma straggler keeps raising and you keep ignoring - your model of science makes it impossible for science to actually do what science observably does; thus you're wrong. Obviously.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 737 by nwr, posted 12-02-2010 7:07 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 741 of 744 (594320)
12-03-2010 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 739 by nwr
12-03-2010 12:17 AM


Re: describing the method, not the world.
Actual descent is mostly unobservable. This is a principle that provides enough to allow building relationship trees.
That doesn't answer the question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 739 by nwr, posted 12-03-2010 12:17 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024