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Author Topic:   Can God lie?
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 68 of 79 (594375)
12-03-2010 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by arachnophilia
12-03-2010 12:12 AM


Can God Lie? Does God Lie?
Of course the question of the thread is: which of these is right? can He or can He not lie?
The originator's point being that since elsewhere in the Bible God is called Almighty (omnipotent), it should be possible for God to lie. He feels the verse in Titus contradicts that notion.
IMO, he is reading more into the Bible than is there.
Omnipotence/Almighty mentioned in Revelation 19:6 and elsewhere deals with authority, not ability. Great power, great importance.
In Titus 1:2, I don't think our English word "cannot" is a good choice. The word apseuds implies truthfulness, not inability to lie. IOW, just because one doesn't lie, doesn't mean one is incapable of lying.
So omnipotence has nothing to do with whether one is capable of lying or not and apseuds isn't implying inability to lie.
We know God is capable of lying, so the next question would be, did the Bible writers show God lying or deceiving anyone in the Bible?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by arachnophilia, posted 12-03-2010 12:12 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Jon, posted 12-03-2010 11:02 AM purpledawn has replied
 Message 76 by arachnophilia, posted 12-03-2010 3:13 PM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 70 of 79 (594421)
12-03-2010 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Jon
12-03-2010 11:02 AM


Re: Can God Lie? Does God Lie?
You go for the children's story. Really?
Where's your evidence that the author had God make an untrue statement with the intent to deceive?
The writer has God threaten to kill A&E if they eat from the tree, when they actually eat from the tree he decides not to kill them. Instead he gives an alternative punishment.
Is it considered a lie when someone gives a lesser punishment than the one threatened?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Jon, posted 12-03-2010 11:02 AM Jon has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Theodoric, posted 12-03-2010 12:27 PM purpledawn has replied
 Message 77 by arachnophilia, posted 12-03-2010 3:18 PM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 72 of 79 (594440)
12-03-2010 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Theodoric
12-03-2010 12:27 PM


Re: Omniscient?
quote:
Isn't this god supposed to be omniscient?
Make your argument and present your evidence. We're looking at the text.
I'm not going to guess what your point is or whether you have evidence for it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Theodoric, posted 12-03-2010 12:27 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 78 of 79 (594499)
12-03-2010 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by arachnophilia
12-03-2010 3:13 PM


Re: Can God Lie? Does God Lie?
quote:
to be fair, this question was answered six and a half years ago, by brian, in the second post of this thread, which i shall reproduce here in its entirety:
Brian shows a good example of God lying, but it didn't really address what the originator was asking concerning the two verses.
The two verses presented in the OP, don't really give contradictory information. I think the writer of Titus is dealing more with the idea that God doesn't break his promises, as opposed to, lying for a just reason.
Both verses can be right and neither negates the ability of God to lie.

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 Message 76 by arachnophilia, posted 12-03-2010 3:13 PM arachnophilia has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 79 of 79 (594631)
12-04-2010 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by arachnophilia
12-03-2010 3:18 PM


Re: you shall surely die
quote:
but then again, it might not. the implication in the text is that the tree will cause death, not that god will punish them for disobedience. but this is a really subtle point, and certainly debatable. perhaps god just likes to phrase things in incredibly indirect ways.
If Eve thought the fruit was poisonous, she took a big risk trusting the snake. Remember Eve gave a little different rendition of God's command.
but God did say, "You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die."
Makes you wonder if she touched the tree first.
The author doesn't depict God character as lying. Since this is a fictional story, we are talking about a character of God and not really God.
At least 1 Kings is depicting their take on reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by arachnophilia, posted 12-03-2010 3:18 PM arachnophilia has not replied

  
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