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Author Topic:   Genuine Puzzles In Biology?
Stephen Push
Member (Idle past 4886 days)
Posts: 140
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 10-08-2010


Message 83 of 153 (590269)
11-07-2010 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Stephen Push
11-07-2010 10:03 AM


Rabies
Dogmafood writes:
Could rabies be said to be doing the same type of thing to it's hosts?
That's an interesting idea. Causing an infected animal to run around biting other potential victims would seem like a good way to spread the virus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Stephen Push, posted 11-07-2010 10:03 AM Stephen Push has not replied

Stephen Push
Member (Idle past 4886 days)
Posts: 140
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 10-08-2010


Message 86 of 153 (590287)
11-07-2010 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Dogmafood
11-07-2010 10:10 AM


Re: Ophiocordyceps
Dogmafood writes:
It is just that it strikes me as such a fantastic culmination of coincidental events.
Fascinating, yes. Fantastic, no -- given that this group of fungi have been parasitizing insects for at least 48 million years.

This message is a reply to:
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Stephen Push
Member (Idle past 4886 days)
Posts: 140
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 10-08-2010


Message 90 of 153 (592078)
11-18-2010 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Parasomnium
11-18-2010 2:27 AM


Re: Please edit the link.
I corrected the url. Thanks for pointing that out, Parasomnium.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Parasomnium, posted 11-18-2010 2:27 AM Parasomnium has not replied

Stephen Push
Member (Idle past 4886 days)
Posts: 140
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 10-08-2010


Message 120 of 153 (595040)
12-06-2010 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Blue Jay
12-02-2010 12:30 PM


Re: Amygdala & Fear
Bluejay writes:
Spider bites can be annoying and painful, and so it makes sense for humans to develop behavioral aversions to them. But, to claim an evolutionary significance for arachnophobia requires spiders to have had a significant impact on human fitness, and I just don't see that as plausible.
  1. The Old World, where humans evolved, doesn't have any spiders that are known to have killed people, and only a handful that are known to cause significant health effects, although these are so uncommonly encountered by humans that bites are almost never reported.
  2. In Asia, where the most dangerous Old World spiders occur, people regularly eat spiders, so I don't see arachnophobia being a major component of human evolution there.
  3. The only spiders known to have caused fatalities (only four taxa) are native to Australia and the Americas.
The best explanation for arachnophobia is as a learned or cultural behavior. But, I have no idea about the causes and explanations for ophidiophobia (fear of snakes).
Thank you for sharing your knowledge of spiders. I assume you are referring to extant species. While your evidence is suggestive, it doesn’t rule out the possibility that our ancestors encountered more dangerous species that are now extinct. In fact, it is possible that a genetic predisposition to learn to fear spiders and snakes started with mammalian ancestors that predated the first primates.
While the facts you mention cast doubt on the evolutionary threat hypothesis, there is a fair amount of empirical evidence on the other side of the issue. In a recent study, Vanessa LoBue of Rutgers University writes:
Evidence of a predisposition to learn to fear evolutionary threats comes from experiments with rhesus monkeys and human adults. Research with laboratory-reared rhesus monkeys has shown that they selectively learn to fear stimuli such as snakes from observing a conspecific after very few trials. Furthermore, research with human adults has shown superior conditioning of skin conductance responses when participants are conditioned to associate an electric shock with spider and snake stimuli compared with neutral stimuli (see hman & Mineka, 2001, for a review). Together, this research provides evidence supporting the idea that both human adults and non-human primates learn more quickly to fear evolutionary threats than neutral stimuli.
LoBue’s paper provides the first evidence of enhanced visual detection of spiders in young children. She writes:
In a series of experiments, preschoolers and adults were asked to find the single spider picture among an array of eight mushrooms or cockroaches or the reverse. Both children and adults detected the presence of spiders more rapidly than both categories of distracter stimuli. Furthermore, there was no difference between the detection of two neutral stimuli (cockroaches vs. mushrooms).
A previous study in preschoolers showed similar results for snakes. Although it is possible that there were cultural influences on the preschoolers, these studies suggest a genetic predisposition because the researchers were measuring visual attention, not fear, and because even people who did not fear spiders or snakes showed greater visual attention to those putative evolutionary threats.

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 Message 94 by Blue Jay, posted 12-02-2010 12:30 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
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Stephen Push
Member (Idle past 4886 days)
Posts: 140
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 10-08-2010


Message 122 of 153 (595210)
12-07-2010 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Blue Jay
12-06-2010 12:32 PM


Re: Amygdala & Fear
Bluejay writes:
I would argue that this study doesn't really distinguish between learned and genetically-determined fear.
As I understand it, the environmental threat hypothesis doesn't assume that fear is genetically determined. Rather it proposes that we are genetically predisposed to notice and learn to fear some stimuli more than others.
I appreciate your skepticism about spiders as an evolutionary threat. But the psychological research seems sound, based as it is on a numerous studies conducted by several different researchers working with several different species. Other than the evolutionary threat hypothesis, I can't think of why humans and monkeys should be more visually attentive to things that look like spiders and more likely to learn to fear spiders than other stimuli.
Perhaps the evolutionary threat was scorpions and the visual processing system didn't distinguish between scorpions and spiders. The only problem I have with that idea is I would think scorpions would be easily distinguished from spiders.

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Stephen Push
Member (Idle past 4886 days)
Posts: 140
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 10-08-2010


Message 123 of 153 (595211)
12-07-2010 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by herebedragons
12-02-2010 11:27 AM


Re: Animal Cognition & Consciousness
herebedragons writes:
Is this the type of consciousness that you are refering to ... being aware of our impact upon other organisms and a feeling of moral and ethical responsibilities to those impacts?
I agree that kind of consciousness is probably unique to humans. But there are other kinds of consciousness that may be present in non-human animals:
  • At the very least, many animals show a difference between wakefulness and sleep, coma, etc. So on some level they can be said to be "conscious" because there are times when they are not "unconscious."
  • Veterinarians, along with the rest of us, routinely assume that animals can experience pain. Many researchers also agree that animals experience certain emotions, such as hunger or rage.
  • While many scientists will agree that some animals are "aware," it is much more controversial to say that they are "aware that they are aware," i.e., that they are self-conscious. Some people think that mirror experiments have shown self-awareness in chimps, dolphins, and a few other species.
  • I don't know of anyone who proposes that any non-human animal has sufficient self-awareness to be considered a moral agent. In fact, there are some scientists and philosophers who deny that human free will exists, in which case none of us would be moral agents.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by herebedragons, posted 12-02-2010 11:27 AM herebedragons has replied

Replies to this message:
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