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Author Topic:   Deconversion experiences
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 105 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 208 of 299 (595150)
12-06-2010 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by dwise1
12-06-2010 4:46 PM


Re: ANOTHER powerful testimony from Dawn Bertot?
Glenn R. Morton, who has participated here in the past, is a professional field geologist and former YEC. Prior to starting work, his sole training in geology was from the ICR and he had written a number of articles for the Creation Research Society Quarterly. He hired a number of Christian Heritage College graduates (hence they were effectively ICR-trained as well). As a result, they were all subjected daily to rock-hard geological facts that they had been taught did not exist and could not exist if Scripture were to have any meaning. As a result, they all suffered crises of faith; Morton himself was driven to the verge of atheism, pulling himself back only by adopting a theology that was much more scientifically sound. His testimony can be found here, The Transformation of a Young-earth Creationist , and here, Why I left Young-earth Creationism, through his page, Personal Stories of the Creation/Evolution Struggle, which links to many other people's stories.
I took the time to read each one of these articles and they are what I expected, sloppy, inefficient examples of why anyone should abandon faith in God or the Bible
The simplest example would be the idea of the YEC illustration. No where does one need to conclude that God is not real and the Bible is not accurate, because some may have been to hasty in thier conclusions and interpretations of the age of the earth, the flood and other examples.
These people and those like them dont take the time to think though all the options and evidence before abandoning long cherished and supportable beliefs
Not taking the miraculous into account is one of the first and common mistakes when trying to interpet the scriptures as some sort of geological text book
No one would have any clue for example one month later, that the Reed Sea had been divided and people walked across on dry ground
Who for example coming upon the burning bush, one month later would have any clue that at a previous date it was said to have been burning and on fire.
The gap theory concerning these matters is probably the best explanation between what we see and what the scriptures is representing concerning Gods intervention
Or simply God could have worked things in a miraculous way that would not left all the usual clues that one would normally find had it happened naturally
LOOKING FOR PHYSICAL CLUES, WHERE THE MIRACULOUS IS OFTEN INVOLVED, MAY NOT ALWAYS PRODUCE THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE ONE WISHES FOR.
The results of the flood may have been the same as its initiation, miraculous in nature. he may have altered things to thier original state of existence, as is indicated in many other miracles
No where is one ordered to believe or is it taught in the Bible that earth is only six thousand years old. These are conlcusions that may not be justified, due to a lack of what God has chosen to leave out of his knowledge revealed to man
Why should this be a cause or reason for complete abandonment
Getting this right or wrong has never been a requirement from God.
Sorry Dewise you and your friends will have to provide better excuses and support for a reason to abandon the God of the bible and the abundant evidence to its favor
Dawn Bertot
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by dwise1, posted 12-06-2010 4:46 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by nwr, posted 12-06-2010 11:23 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied
 Message 210 by dwise1, posted 12-07-2010 1:25 AM Dawn Bertot has replied
 Message 213 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-07-2010 2:47 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 105 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 220 of 299 (595291)
12-07-2010 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by dwise1
12-07-2010 1:25 AM


Re: ANOTHER powerful testimony from Dawn Bertot?
Which tells us that you obviously did not read those articles. Or just could not understand them. If you need, please have somebody who knows how to read read them for you and tell you what they say -- be sure to have them first read your assessment quoted above. No wonder some many forum members thought that you were a non-native English speaker with minimal English skills.
To stay on topic here, I assure you I read and understood each article, now simply point to the agrument/s in these articles that would shake my beliefs in the Bible or a personal God
Your very good Dewise1 at making assertions and implying this or that, but you never seem to make an actual argument. You ramble on and on and act as if that is a substitute for an actual argument
To assist in my deconversion, provide the points or point in these articles that would help my disbelief along
Now notice, I dont need another discourse on someone elses beliefs, but why I need to recant based on somepoint they have made
In most of those instances, cited by individuals, they like many others had no foundation of reason or scripture, to start with
They are sloppy examples of why a person should not believe in the Bible or Gods word
Deconversion for them was due to a lack of formal reasoning ability, not unlike yourself
Dawn Bertot
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by dwise1, posted 12-07-2010 1:25 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by arachnophilia, posted 12-07-2010 8:34 PM Dawn Bertot has replied
 Message 222 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-07-2010 8:34 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied
 Message 224 by dwise1, posted 12-08-2010 12:49 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied
 Message 225 by Adminnemooseus, posted 12-08-2010 12:59 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 105 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 223 of 299 (595311)
12-07-2010 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by arachnophilia
12-07-2010 8:34 PM


Re: ANOTHER powerful testimony from Dawn Bertot?
That said, i've also heard some good stories about losing faith based on proper, legitimate, academic understanding of the scriptures. they say that loss of faith is actually the major obstacle in seminary school -- there's a very high drop out rate once people begin to truly understand the bible. i can confirm that this is a very real challenge, from my own studies into the bible.
Well I guess I was lucky. I had the cream of the crop, in the nature of Bible scholars, theologians and apologists. Ive been studying considering, and debating these issues for nearly 45 years and never seen, with one exception any isuues that would cause me to think twice about it.
The only one I think that could be offered is actually in the form of an observation, not an argument.
That being the csae that miracles were so prevelant in the Bible, but seem to have "vansihed"
Also, an idea I have considered at times, is that , if God is our father and that he loves us, what kind of father would go out of his way to make absolutely no direct contact with his child.
While these are not reasons to ignore the weath of evidence in the scriptures, its manuscript preservation, its history and numerous other evidences. It does make one wonder and is a test for some, of real faith.
After all of this it comes down to the heart of its doctrine, the Psalms, the Proverbs, The prophets, the Law, the Gospels and the NT letters, specifically Romans.
"For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. " 2 peter
Maintaing this assurance even to the point of the sword and fire
Its textual preservation and the history concerning its events, cooroborated by outside sources
So the preponderances that I have offered, fade in light of the more abundant evidence
Dawn Bertot
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by arachnophilia, posted 12-07-2010 8:34 PM arachnophilia has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by Taz, posted 12-10-2010 11:26 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
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