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Author Topic:   Can a valid, supportable reason be offered for deconversion
jar
Member
Posts: 34054
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 121 of 566 (596314)
12-14-2010 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Dawn Bertot
12-14-2010 9:16 AM


Re: scriptural unity
Dawn Bertot writes:
Any of the Old Testament prophecies that are clear representations of and about Christ and point directly to his life and minisrty will suffice. Some are unmistakable that it cannot be missed except by someone trying to misapply them
And that says nothing about the inspiration that kept the word of God intact through the years
Our ability to reproduce nearly the entirity of the NT together from the early and late Church fathers, so we can see that the manuscripts match nearly without mistake the original autographs
Like I said, "I" dont need to do anything. The scriptures, Prophets, the Law and the NT piece it together so that even a simpleton such as mayself cannot missed it
Merry Christmas (Christ-mas) everybody
Dawn Bertot
Except, as expected, when asked to support your assertion in a thread devoted to examining the claimed clear representations of and about Christ and point directly to his life and ministry you simply refuse and say you don't have to support your assertions.
And, in addition, you once again refuse to answer the questions asked so I'll post them again.
quote:
Why if I look and find that there is no unity of doctrine and theme in the Bible (which is pretty obvious to anyone that understands there is not even such a thing as "The Bible") is that not sufficient and supportable reason to throw away the god and religion you try to market?
If I find the Bible to be just a collection of writings on a variety of subjects addressed to people of different eras and cultures, why is that not sufficient?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 9:16 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 5:23 PM jar has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3794 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 122 of 566 (596315)
12-14-2010 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by dwise1
12-14-2010 10:14 AM


Re: Please learn how to read, Dawn
dwise1 writes:
Oh yeah, you guessed it into existence. Rather than actually read what was written, you created your own imaginary version, detached from reality.
Dawn can't read anything even slightly complicated.
He has to guess.
He recognises a few words and then guesses which words join them up.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by dwise1, posted 12-14-2010 10:14 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by dwise1, posted 12-14-2010 11:12 AM Panda has seen this message but not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5972
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 123 of 566 (596323)
12-14-2010 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Panda
12-14-2010 10:22 AM


Re: Please learn how to read, Dawn
His problem with sentences may be more diagnostic than we had thought. A sentence contains a complete thought. Since Dawn so often does not write sentences, but rather fragments of sentences, that would indicate that he has very few complete thoughts. And what fragments he does present are low in contents. OTOH, especially with my German background (my first foreign language), my complete thoughts pack a lot of content. Just too rich a diet for him to be able to handle.

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 Message 122 by Panda, posted 12-14-2010 10:22 AM Panda has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 493 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 124 of 566 (596331)
12-14-2010 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Dawn Bertot
12-14-2010 9:29 AM


Dawn Bertot writes:
So exacally what side are you on and where is it headed?
It isn't a matter of choosing sides so much as knowing where the goal is. You're putting the puck in your own net, scoring points against the side that you chose.
I don't even have to step out on the ice. You're winning the game for me all by yourself. Just keep doing what you're doing.
All I have to do is turn on the goal light.
Edited by ringo, : Removed confusing phraseology.

"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 9:29 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4271 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 125 of 566 (596343)
12-14-2010 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Dawn Bertot
12-14-2010 9:32 AM


Abortion, Liberal agendas
What has that to do with genocide?

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 9:32 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 126 of 566 (596344)
12-14-2010 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Dawn Bertot
12-13-2010 9:23 PM


You clearly did not have an adequate education in the scriptures.
Yes, I did. Knowing what scripture says is independent of believing what scripture says. They are two different things.
Your analogy is quite inaccurate and its attempts to equate Christianity w/Santa are easily deniable and silly
Do you find the belief that Santa uses flying reindeer to be bothersome? Yes or no?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-13-2010 9:23 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by arachnophilia, posted 12-15-2010 12:57 AM Taq has not replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4271 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 127 of 566 (596346)
12-14-2010 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Dawn Bertot
12-14-2010 9:08 AM


What do man made objects have to do with talking snakes?
19 inch talking boxes have evidence otherwise I could not answer your post. Where is the evidence for the talking snakes, biblical flood, the exodus etc?

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 9:08 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 128 of 566 (596384)
12-14-2010 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Panda
12-14-2010 10:14 AM


Re: scriptural unity
But you are embarrassing yourself by posting such half-baked nonsense.
So, once again I must make it known to all paying attention, you have nothing constructive to offer inthe way of following the thread.
You once again, provide no argument or vaild reason why I or anyone should deconvert
Ill be waiting to see if that actually ever happens. My guess is that you wont even make an attempt
Dawn Bertot

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Panda, posted 12-14-2010 10:14 AM Panda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Taq, posted 12-15-2010 12:05 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1425 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 129 of 566 (596386)
12-14-2010 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Dawn Bertot
12-13-2010 9:12 PM


Re: scriptural unity
Dawn Bertot writes:
arachnophilia writes:
that's still nonsense. a good portion of the bible is simply not messianic, and a fair portion of the bits that are have nothing to do with the messiah you're likely thinking of. for instance, there was the messiah who lead the israelites into the promised land. the messiah who unified the tribes and ruled as the first king. the messiah who led the people back from exile...
A good portion of the Bible is Messianic, which demonstrates unity of purpose
no, still nonsense. it's like you said, "all fruit are just like apples!" and i said, "yes, but some are oranges." and then you replied "yes, but some are apples!" not a good rebuttal to the oranges.
None of these were of course the Messiah mentioned in Genesis 3:15 or the one in Isa 51, that would be called, mighty God, eternal father and Prince of Peace, fulfilled clearly in Christ in the New Law, correct?
take it to jar's prophecy thread. i think you'll find that the majority of the time, ur reedin it rong.
You missed the part where I responded by pointing out that Paul and Christ acknowledge that the Old Law was only for a time, until the fulfillment of all things
and you missed the part where i pointed out that this is not unity in the slightest.
Why do you assume a change in a way of doing something does not constitute a continuity of theology?
because i recognize that change ≠ continuity.
i think we're having some kind of basic logic problem here.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-13-2010 9:12 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 10:57 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 130 of 566 (596387)
12-14-2010 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by dwise1
12-14-2010 10:14 AM


Re: Please learn how to read, Dawn
Stop changing the subject! None of the deconversion discussion here nor in the other topic has ever been about you personally deconverting. Where the hell did you ever get that crazy idea?
Hey rocket scientist, Im the one that titled this thread, at the request of admin. Im pretty sure I know what I am asking in the title I have provided.
the other thread was not as specific as this one. here I am asking for a valid reason/s , why a person should deconvert. Not what peoples personal experiences are and are not
That cant be that hard to understand.
My guess is that you cannot, because you do not know how to provide one in a logical fashion
Come on Dewise, put those grammatical skills together and formulate an argument. heck, even a theory from you at this point would be acceptable
For once in your life, get a clue! Then you might stop to be treated like the idiot that you keep presenting to us.
take it real slow, go back and read the title of the thread. Quit avoiding the simple request I am putting in front of you. If you cant do it just say so
Dawn Bertot
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by dwise1, posted 12-14-2010 10:14 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by dwise1, posted 12-14-2010 9:55 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1425 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 131 of 566 (596388)
12-14-2010 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Dawn Bertot
12-13-2010 11:12 PM


Re: scriptural unity
Dawn Bertot writes:
When one understands the ultimate purpose of God in scripture, the unifiying of himself and man after the fall, one easily understands the messianic prophecies
when one has actually read the scripture, one easily understands that quite a lot of it has nothing to do with your proposed themes.
for instance, what do you make of the books that don't even mention god?
I dont need to do anything, the scriptures will do it for you, just read it, with the clear theme in mind
i suggest that you just read it. and for real this time. and without preconceived notions about what it's supposed to say or supposed to be about. you might find it says some things you don't expect, and doesn't say some things you did.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-13-2010 11:12 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 11:30 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1425 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 132 of 566 (596389)
12-14-2010 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Dawn Bertot
12-14-2010 9:32 AM


Dawn Bertot writes:
Abortion
hey Dawn, pop quiz. what's the punishment the torah dictates for abortion? compare and contrast to the punishment for working on a saturday.
Tell me more of how "your" morality is better than the Nazi's
and what's the reward the torah promises for genocide?

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 9:32 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 133 of 566 (596390)
12-14-2010 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by jar
12-14-2010 10:22 AM


Re: scriptural unity
Except, as expected, when asked to support your assertion in a thread devoted to examining the claimed clear representations of and about Christ and point directly to his life and ministry you simply refuse and say you don't have to support your assertions.
Wrong. his life and ministry as related in history and the gospels are direct attestation to that accuracy.
Eyewitness testimony to the events in the nature of Gospels and NT letters.
Unfortunately, you are requiring a type of proof you would not require in anyother instance
Im pretty sure George Washington existed, but even looking at a photograph does not prove to me that he actually existed or that he actually participated in all the events that he was said to have performed, does it?
the Gospels, Acts and the NT letters are as good evidence as any could offer when refering to events that one did not witness at a present date. if you do not believe this, then perhaps you could provide evidence why I should not believe thier testimony
The NT, the Acts and the NT, remove any doubt, as to who those Prophets were speaking. They are unmistakeable and unerring in there application
repeating yourself that it is not evidence is not the same as demonstrating what is clear and obvious
In this area, you have failed to provide enough evidence as to why I should deconvert
The prophecies alone are enough reason to stay
Dawn Bertot
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by jar, posted 12-14-2010 10:22 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by arachnophilia, posted 12-14-2010 5:30 PM Dawn Bertot has replied
 Message 135 by jar, posted 12-14-2010 5:36 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1425 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 134 of 566 (596392)
12-14-2010 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Dawn Bertot
12-14-2010 5:23 PM


Re: scriptural unity
Dawn Bertot writes:
Wrong. his life and ministry as related in history and the gospels are direct attestation to that accuracy.
take it to the prophecy thread. we'll examine any prophecy you put forth.
Eyewitness testimony to the events in the nature of Gospels and NT letters.
fun fact: none of the books of the new testament were written by people who personally knew christ (prior to the resurrection, in a real corporeal physical sense, anyways).
Im pretty sure George Washington existed, but even looking at a photograph does not prove to me that he actually existed or that he actually participated in all the events that he was said to have performed, does it?
fun fact: george washington died before the invention of photography.
fun fact, part 2: george washington died exactly 211 years ago, today.
The prophecies alone are enough reason to stay
fun fact: there is currently a thread of prophecies as they relate to jesus.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 5:23 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 11:09 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34054
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 135 of 566 (596394)
12-14-2010 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Dawn Bertot
12-14-2010 5:23 PM


Re: scriptural unity
Dawn, no one in this thread has ever even suggested you should deconvert. If you are happy with your little bling-bling pimp daddy of a god, then by all means keep it. I knew a kid once that liked smelling gym socks.
The question was what would be a valid, supportable reason for deconversion.
You still refuse to support your assertions, try again and again to change the subject, take things out of context and ignore the questions asked.
People can read the thread Dawn, you fool no one but your self.
So, yet again:
quote:
Except, as expected, when asked to support your assertion in a thread devoted to examining the claimed clear representations of and about Christ and point directly to his life and ministry you simply refuse and say you don't have to support your assertions.
And, in addition, you once again refuse to answer the questions asked so I'll post them again.
quote:
Why if I look and find that there is no unity of doctrine and theme in the Bible (which is pretty obvious to anyone that understands there is not even such a thing as "The Bible") is that not sufficient and supportable reason to throw away the god and religion you try to market?
If I find the Bible to be just a collection of writings on a variety of subjects addressed to people of different eras and cultures, why is that not sufficient?

And if you believe there is actually a single Old Testament Prophecy that points to or relates to or refers to Jesus, then there is a thread open to discuss it.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 5:23 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 10:48 PM jar has replied

  
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