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Author Topic:   Eternal Life (thanks, but no thanks)
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 277 of 296 (596684)
12-16-2010 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Modulous
02-04-2009 9:33 AM


If I do grow, then I change. This is good. I like changing - I am a different person now, then when I was six years old and I am different from when I was eighteen. The me aged eighteen can be said to be 'dead' since it doesn't really exist any more. It has been replaced with me aged twenty eight.
Nah, I don't like this. You're still you. You can't be anything else but you, yourself. You change, changing doesn't make you not-you.
You can't say that you didn't do something because it was you when you were 18 that did it, no... you still did that.
If I have eternal life and I grow and change, I will be so radically different by the age of five hundred, what difference would it make to my twenty eight year old self if that five hundred year old person exists?
You'll still be you so it'll still make a difference to you, just not the person you once was.
So if I do change over time: I don't really care if I have eternal life. It makes no difference since I will eventually no longer exist and a different person will exist.
You will be different but you'll still be you. You can't say that you will no longer exist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Modulous, posted 02-04-2009 9:33 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Modulous, posted 12-17-2010 4:26 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 291 of 296 (597210)
12-20-2010 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 282 by Modulous
12-17-2010 4:26 AM


You're still you.
Tautology.
You can't be anything else but you, yourself
Tautology.
Those being tautologies means that your position is a contradiction
You change, changing doesn't make you not-you
What do you mean by 'you'? See Message 8 for potentially relevant thoughts on this issue.
I suppose I'm falling in line with this:
quote:
So you're saying, "but my self has this same kind continuance of 'perspective', so its the same thing just a different part (like the train) or occupies a different time (like the car) of the same thing. It is this thing that I am interested in achieving personality".
It is a strong argument, and of course, this is a matter of personal preferences.
Of course you're always going to be you. Its wrong that because you were so much different when you were younger that it wasn't you who, say, stole that candy from the store. No, it was you who did it even if you've changed since then.
How far back do you have to go? "I've changed so much since I killed my wife last week, that it wasn't me who did it so I shouldn't be charged with anything..." No, that doesn't fly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Modulous, posted 12-17-2010 4:26 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by Modulous, posted 12-20-2010 12:13 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 293 of 296 (597215)
12-20-2010 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by Modulous
12-20-2010 12:13 PM


Only if I claimed that I am not me. Which I haven't
Well there's this:
quote:
If I do grow, then I change. This is good. I like changing - I am a different person now, then when I was six years old and I am different from when I was eighteen. The me aged eighteen can be said to be 'dead' since it doesn't really exist any more. It has been replaced with me aged twenty eight.
And now this:
And this leads us to wondering why we should care if we survive 10,000 million years into the future, if the 'me' that is there is so radically changed - the 'me' that is here now simply can't find any reason to care about the fate of that being and it wouldn't matter if it didn't even exist.
The parts that are 'me' that I want to preserve in 'eternal life' have not been preserved - so who cares?
Which is assuming that you're going to change so much that you're not going to be you anymore.
You're still gonna be you, so I don't see the problem.
You should care the same way you care about whether or not you'll see tomorrow. It doesn't matter if you push it out 10,000 years, you're still gonna be there the day before that, and the day before that, and the day before that, all the way back to tomorrow and today.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by Modulous, posted 12-20-2010 12:13 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by Modulous, posted 12-20-2010 2:20 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 295 of 296 (597243)
12-20-2010 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by Modulous
12-20-2010 2:20 PM


But what 'I' am is different to what 'I' was, and what 'I' will be.
But still 'you' nonetheless.
There is an unbroken chain from me to the first life forms on earth, and a great deal of change has occurred in a few billion years, but that is quite different than arguing that 'I', in any sense that matters to 'me', has survived 4 billion years.
Irrelevant. "You" were never a caveman, or a single celled organism.
Obviously the tautology is true, but I don't care about the tautology. I care about whether or not in 25 billion years there will be something that exists that I can be associated with strongly enough for me to care about it. I doubt very much that this could be the case.
Why?
You can just point me to a post if you've already explained it. Pardon me for not reading through the whole thread.
Presuambly, its because of all the change you expect to go through, so as you say:
But I think we can agree that tomorrow I'll be largely the same person I am today, with little difference. The same knowledge, the same loves, hates, goals, personality etc etc.
So too, will you largely be the same the day before 10000 years from now as the day of. And the day before that, and the day before that, all the way back to tomorrow.
True - but I don't care about the guy 10,000 years from now who is going to be very different from the guy sat here today so I don't care that that guy will exist one day.
But you do care about the guy you'll be tomorrow with your ever-so-slight difference. When tomorrow is the 10000th-year day, you're still going to care about the you of tomorrow. I don't see where this chain breaks so as to make you stop caring about yourself and if it does, then you might as well not care about tomorrow either.
What is it that you want to survive? If I said that your perception will continue, but you will have no memories and none of the same personality, would you care?
This isn't about me, its about you!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by Modulous, posted 12-20-2010 2:20 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by Modulous, posted 12-20-2010 5:41 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
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