Can a valid, supportable reason be offered for deconversion

Still no argument from Panda. You really dont know anything about these topics or how to debate, do you?Be honest now, tell us the truth or atleast present an argumentPrehaps you could help Jar out of his problem. Atleast make some sort of groaning noise at an attempt related to the topicDawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Thanks Mum

Dawn, get serious.Dawn, all of this was addressed in Message 287, Message 254, Message 226, Message 267 and Message 270 and Message 291.What we are testing is whether or not what they wrote applies to Jesus. It is irrelevant whether what they wrote is reliable or accurate; it is what they wrote. We can test what they wrote to see if what they wrote refers to Jesus.It really is that simple.You made a claim, we can examine that claim. Frankly Dawn, folk can read the posts in this thread and honestly, your arguments are as weak and pitiful as the god you try to market.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Quite so: just as you might try to demonstrate that the chair you saw on Saturday was not the grufflepuff that I was speaking about.This is easy to do. You would observe that it did not have purple wings nor play the trombone. Then you'd know that my prophecy did not apply to your chair.At no point would you have to assume that I was in any way correct or accurate. No, of course he isn't. Don't be silly. Of course he can; just as you can say that I am not accurate and still know that nothing you saw on Saturday was the fulfillment of my prophecy about the grufflepuff.Indeed, the two go hand in hand. You cannot point out that my prophecy was not fulfilled without also believing that I was inaccurate in making the prophecy.Or at least a rational person couldn't. I do not wish to set arbitrary limits on your capacity for doublethink.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Oh, I am quite serious and asserting that inspiration does not matter, when you have no reason to believe that those writers are reliable in the first place makes no logical sense.Yours, is a fallacy of the worst order.I have asked you a question and asked you to give an example numerous times now and you simply refuse to answer itHere it is again. Give me an example of something the prophets said of a miraculous or non-miraculous nature, that you can trust and why you trust itHeres the extention of that challenge.Give me an example of something that one of the prophets said, that does not apply to ChristThis should be simple enough, correct? Unfortunately, you dont understand how evidence or the scriptures are understood, not to mention critical thinking Yeah, Ive heard all of your catchy phrases through the monthsNow, just present the phrase from the prophet that is applicable to the argument, that you believe is reliable and that demonstrates that Christ was not the fulfillmentWhy wont you do this?Dawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Perhaps it is more that many of us do understand evidence and critical thinking, and as such have little to no trust for scriptures and other shamanistic writings.

The great trouble with religion - any religion - is that a religionist, having accepted certain propositions by faith, cannot thereafter judge those propositions by evidence.

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Robert A. Heinlein, Friday

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Micah 5: ---The rest of your post appears to be your usual nonsensical ravings.

Still no answer from Dawn.Why should we believe your claims to be educated when you can't read or write?

And it has been pointed out to you that we can read what they actually wrote. Note the bolded parts from the very message you are replying to. You have been answered. What we are testing is whether or not what they wrote applies to Jesus. It is irrelevant whether what they wrote is reliable or accurate; it is what they wrote. We can test what they wrote to see if what they wrote refers to Jesus.

quote:

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Dawn, all of this was addressed in Message 287, Message 254, Message 226, Message 267 and Message 270 and Message 291.

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What we are testing is whether or not what they wrote applies to Jesus. It is irrelevant whether what they wrote is reliable or accurate; it is what they wrote. We can test what they wrote to see if what they wrote refers to Jesus.

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It really is that simple.

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You made a claim, we can examine that claim.

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We can trust that what we read is actually what is written. And that too has been covered in this thread in Message 93 and in Message 226 and as has been pointed out to you there is even a whole thread devoted to the topic at Are any of these prophecies fulfilled by Jesus? where even more examples are given. Frankly Dawn, folk can read the posts in this thread and honestly, your arguments are as weak and pitiful as the god you try to market.Unfortunately Dawn it appears that even though many have tried to explain to you what prophecy was and how it is tested, you still don't understand.Prophecy was a godly dope slap. It was God telling a messenger "Go say this to my people". It is NOT something that would be hard to understand, it was meant to be understood easily by all that heard it. It was NOT meant for people living thousands or even hundreds of years in the future, it was meant for those actually hearing the prophet.And the actual question related to the topic also still remains unanswered:

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Why if I look and find that there is no unity of doctrine and theme in the Bible (which is pretty obvious to anyone that understands there is not even such a thing as "The Bible") is that not sufficient and supportable reason to throw away the god and religion you try to market?

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If I find the Bible to be just a collection of writings on a variety of subjects addressed to people of different eras and cultures, why is that not sufficient?

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Lets try againThe bible contradicts itself on many occasions
the bible is wrong on lots of facts
No prophecies presented on this forum are actual prophecies and none have come to passSo it is reasnoble to conclude that the Bible is not the word of god and it is in fact a book written by mere mortals trying to push their morality upon the mases and trying to explain what they do not understandThere is no miracle that has been tested by science and it could be called a miracle after that.There has been no manifestation of god in recent history and it has not been objectively observed and recorded by an objective science mind.We have fare better explanations for just about everything and those explanations rely on science facts and evidence. If you do not understand those explanations well then go and read a book about it do not go crying god did it.We have no evidence, measurements or anything that would point to a god. If you think you have some think again or present it, and do not cry about it when it gets torn to pieces by the objective mind.So why do you still cling to a imaginary friend you call god?

I wouldn't go that far.If you reread what was posted over in Are any of these prophecies fulfilled by Jesus? I think you will find that many of the prophecies listed are fulfilled, just that they were not prophecies about Jesus.For example, the Isaiah 7 prophecy was fulfilled, only a little over a half century before Jesus was even born.Prophecy was meant for the immediate audience; it was saying "If you do this, this is what will happen".

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Hi, Dawn. I didn't mention "herkie jerkies" or feelings of any kind in my post, Dawn. In fact, I intentionally left out all mention of those things.The only description I gave was "witness from the Holy Ghost."Do you agree that a witness from the Holy Ghost is an integral part of conversion?----- Does this not count as a "witness from the Holy Ghost"?
Is this not part of the conversion experience?
Should I convert if I haven't felt this knowledge and assurance?----- Then you do believe that the Holy Ghost has no role in conversion at all.If that is the case, then it is also a valid reason to deconvert from any sect that believes the Holy Ghost does play a role in conversion.Also, the validity of a decision to convert/deconvert is entirely based on an assessment of the empirical evidence for the truth of the religion in question. I argue that, regardless of which religion we're talking about, the evidence is wholly lacking, and that deconversion is thus perfectly valid.

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-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)Darwin loves you.

Micah 5 "Marshal your troops, O city of troops,afor a siege is laid against us.They will strike Israel’s ruleron the cheek with a rod.2But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,though you are small among the clansb of Judah,out of you will come for meone who will be ruler over Israel,whose originsc are from of old,from ancient times.d3Therefore Israel will be abandoneduntil the time when she who is in labor gives birthand the rest of his brothers returnto join the Israelites.4He will stand and shepherd his flockin the strength of the Lord,in the majesty of the name of the Lord his God.And they will live securely, for then his greatnesswill reach to the ends of the earth.5And he will be their peace.Deliverance and DestructionWhen the Assyrian invades our landand marches through our fortresses,we will raise against him seven shepherds,even eight leaders of men. "Wow it is so cool that you chose this prophecy. This one nails not only the fact that Christ is the only fulfilment, but as the NT teaches, he would be one whos goings out and comings in are from everlastingChrist is God.Its not only a dual passage about those current events, but it establishes in both instances that it is God THAT IS the deliverer, WHETHER THEN OR NOWAbsolutely amazing. Its all about God whether then, at the time of the Christ, or nowOnce you understand the nature and purpose of scripture, you will understand that is and always will be just about Godthe theme never changed between the OlT and the New. God as deliever, whether in a physical way or a spiritual oneI cant thank you enough for providing that oneDawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

That is palpably, the most ignorant statement I have ever seen or read"it does not matter whether they were reliable or accurate"why dont you add "believable"Give me a minute, I cant stop laughingNo one in any area of investigation, in any science would take such an approachyet Jar proudly and confidently claims as muchYour a hoot manEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

How does it do that, DB? Are Romans really Assyrians? Does the New Testament talk about "seven shepherds,
even eight leaders of men?"Or are "Assyrians" modern-day Iranians, and you are citing as "fulfilled prophecy" some Armageddon bullshit that hasn't happened?

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"God is Santa Claus for adults."
- Mad Kallie