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Author Topic:   Genetic Equidistance: A Puzzle in Biology?
Dr Jack
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Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
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(1)
Message 17 of 89 (596920)
12-18-2010 5:00 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Livingstone Morford
12-17-2010 6:22 PM


I’m not sure you get the gist of my argument. For example, an ontogenic amino acid substitution in a human protein must be compatible with every one of the different cell types found in the human organism (every cell, that is, that contains the protein), while an amino acid substitution in say, a yeast protein must be compatible with only one cell type.
An analogy may (in a theoretical sense) be useful here. Say you have protein A. And you have cell type X, Y, and Z. Any substitution mutation in protein A must be compatible with all three cell types. Meanwhile, if you only have cell type X, then protein A needs only to compatible with X (analogy a la Dr. Shi Huang).
How then do you explain the fact that the yeastchaonoflagellate distance is equal to the yeast<->human distance?
The simple fact is that the genetic distance do not follow simple complexity connection lines.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 18 of 89 (596921)
12-18-2010 5:02 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by crashfrog
12-17-2010 7:53 PM


Genetic distance is measured primarily on non-coding regions to minimize the effect of selection, so, by definition, your model of equidistance being the result of increased selection against mutations in more complex organisms is false.
Actually, this isn't correct. Non-coding regions of DNA evolve much too rapidly to provide useful information across large evolution distances. You'd use non-coding regions to compare human populations, for example, but they're useless for comparing humans and yeast.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


(1)
Message 47 of 89 (597170)
12-20-2010 4:12 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by crashfrog
12-19-2010 6:33 PM


Cytochrome c - not just for oxidative phosphorylation
What direct effect does cytochrome c have on biological activity outside the mitochondria?
It's involved in apoptosis*, when released from the mitochondria it complexes with Apaf-1 and a few other bits to form the apoptosome.
* - a form of cell death that is directed by the cells own processes, aka programmed cell death. See HERE Technologies | The world's #1 location platform for a pretty video.
Edited by Mr Jack, : Subtitle

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 58 of 89 (597503)
12-22-2010 4:59 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Taq
12-21-2010 4:02 PM


Re: The Crash Promise
Cytc does not interact with any intracellular proteins outside of the mitochondria.
As I pointed out, upthread, this is incorrect. Cytochrome c is involved in apoptosis. It binds to Apaf-1, and forms the apoptosome.
The only affect the mitochondria has on the cell is the ATP and other cofactors that it produces.
Um, no, not so.
edit: (btw: if you think about it you knew this already, how could a mitochondrion trigger the autophagic pathways you mentioned in another post without interacting with other cellular elements?)
Edited by Mr Jack, : Added aside

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 59 of 89 (597505)
12-22-2010 5:09 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Taq
12-21-2010 3:56 PM


Cytochrome C is not encoded by mtDNA
Chances are, a mitochondria that has a broken cytc gene will be processed through autophagy pathways. Dysfunctional mitochondria release specific triggers (a molecular version of a dead man's switch) that start the autophagy pathways. The mutation in that cytc gene will not get passed on to further generations of mitochondria. All of this occurs without the need for cell death.
Cytochrome c is encoded by nuclear DNA* and imported into the mitochondria, rather than encoded by the mitochondria DNA itself. While what you describe here would be true for the four transport proteins themselves, it is not true for cytochrome c.
* Specifically, in humans, by the CYCS gene located on chromosome 7.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 62 of 89 (597555)
12-22-2010 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Taq
12-22-2010 11:57 AM


Re: The Crash Promise
As you note, apoptosis is not merely part of cell dysfunction, it's an absolutely vital part of the development of multi-cellular organisms. Key developmental mechanisms such as those producing the separation of the fingers, and the correct routing of nerve fibres from the eyes to the visual regions of the brain rely on apoptosis to function correctly. Not all of this developmental apoptosis occur via cytochrome c involving pathways, but some of it certainly does.
Whether this provides any support at all for Mr. Morford's wider principles is another matter but let us at least criticise his notions on the basis of factually correct science, hey?

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 64 of 89 (597567)
12-22-2010 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Taq
12-22-2010 12:43 PM


Re: The Crash Promise
What would be interesting is to see how specific the binding is between cytc and and the triggers of the apoptotic pathway. Is it possible to switch cytc or the apoptotic proteins that bind to cytc between distantly related organisms? That would be interesting.
That's an interesting question, so I decided to look a little deeper. It seems that cytochrome c's involvement is limited to particular groups of animals (I'm not sure how large a group but certainly including mammals). In nematodes (or C. elegans, at least) rather than pro-apoptotic proteins interacting with mitochondria to release Cytochrome c which then joins with other proteins to form the apoptosome, their equivalent pro-apoptotic proteins directly complex with other proteins to form the apoptosome. So the whole cytochrome c requiring apoptotic step is absent.

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