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Author Topic:   Good drugs, bad drugs, legal drugs, illegal drugs
iano
Member (Idle past 1963 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 84 of 115 (598004)
12-26-2010 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by jar
12-25-2010 12:40 PM


Re: towards a solution
jar writes:
I'm not convinced that it is such a terrible opinion.
Look at the currents costs involved in the system in place. Because it is illicit, we have the costs involved in crime, in enforcement, in loss of productivity, pain and suffering. Then there is the major expense, the silly "War on Drugs".
You recommend legalisation and easing of access.
A general rule of thumb when it comes to consumables tells us that as access simplifies > consumption goes up. In the case of illicit drugs the simplification of access would take the form of legalisation (dismantling the current restraint supplied by illicitedness), reduced price (enabled by removal of the drugs cartels and production by efficient methods), ease of access ( available on the street corner instead of down dark alleyways), reduction of hazard (enabled by certainty of source).
What you suggest would , it would seem, result in an increase in consumption by people currently prohibited from partaking by the above restraints. Have you take account of this in your forecast?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 12-25-2010 12:40 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Theodoric, posted 12-26-2010 4:08 PM iano has replied
 Message 91 by jar, posted 12-26-2010 5:26 PM iano has replied
 Message 92 by Omnivorous, posted 12-26-2010 6:00 PM iano has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1963 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 87 of 115 (598007)
12-26-2010 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Theodoric
12-26-2010 4:08 PM


Re: towards a solution
Theodoric writes:
Any empirical evidence for this rule of thumb?
dvd players, automobiles, organic food, paracetamol, alcohol, blue-ray. I'm waiting for the price of ipads to fall to a fraction of the current price myself. It's kind of self-evident really: remove reasons to abstain from the consumption of that which is attractive and consumption will increase.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

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 Message 85 by Theodoric, posted 12-26-2010 4:08 PM Theodoric has not replied

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 Message 88 by Panda, posted 12-26-2010 5:06 PM iano has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1963 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 90 of 115 (598013)
12-26-2010 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Panda
12-26-2010 5:06 PM


Re: towards a solution
Cigarettes
Consumption is falling. And?
Alcohol
Ditto above.
AbE: Overall consumption falling doesn't necessarily alter the fact that the elimination of restraining factors causes an (relative to what otherwise would be the case) increase in consumption.
quote:
AIMS: We conducted a systematic review of studies examining relationships between measures of beverage alcohol tax or price levels and alcohol sales or self-reported drinking. A total of 112 studies of alcohol tax or price effects were found, containing 1003 estimates of the tax/price-consumption relationship.
quote:
CONCLUSIONS: A large literature establishes that beverage alcohol prices and taxes are related inversely to drinking. Effects are large compared to other prevention policies and programs. Public policies that raise prices of alcohol are an effective means to reduce drinking.
Source
Edited by iano, : No reason given.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Panda, posted 12-26-2010 5:06 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Panda, posted 12-26-2010 7:53 PM iano has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1963 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 94 of 115 (598017)
12-26-2010 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by jar
12-26-2010 5:26 PM


Re: towards a solution
jar writes:
Of course.
Of course what?
And I don't see the correlation that you claim.
You don't see the correlation between dismanting fences to consumption and increasing consumption?
But even if it were true, so what?
I would imagine you'd want to do a cost-benefit analysis before making currently illicit drugs more freely available. Consider that your action could produce more people addicted to/negatively affected by drugs than the current policy does.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by jar, posted 12-26-2010 5:26 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 12-26-2010 6:08 PM iano has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1963 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 96 of 115 (598019)
12-26-2010 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Omnivorous
12-26-2010 6:00 PM


Re: towards a solution
Omnivorous writes:
How would addicts receiving free fixes at a state clinic have any price effect elsewhere?
I was dealing with a view which would:
jar writes:
..decriminalize drug use, nationalize drug productions, subsidize it and give them away for free through a local clinic setting where users also get free medical care and education.
Currently drugs cost folk money. This policy would ensure drugs cost no money. A current (significant) impediment to consumption eliminated would produce (according to the aforementioned rule of thumb) an increase in drug consumption. That doesn't strike me as an intelligent policy.
Your point seems to deal with only addicts so perhaps we're ships passing?
Edited by iano, : No reason given.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

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 Message 92 by Omnivorous, posted 12-26-2010 6:00 PM Omnivorous has replied

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 Message 98 by Theodoric, posted 12-26-2010 6:17 PM iano has seen this message but not replied
 Message 101 by Omnivorous, posted 12-26-2010 7:06 PM iano has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1963 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 97 of 115 (598020)
12-26-2010 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by jar
12-26-2010 6:08 PM


Re: towards a solution
jar writes:
If so, and I doubt that, so what?
What is wrong with being addicted?
It's generally considered a negative thing. If a policy produces a negative result then it's not usually considered a good policy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 12-26-2010 6:08 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by jar, posted 12-26-2010 6:22 PM iano has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1963 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 100 of 115 (598023)
12-26-2010 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by jar
12-26-2010 6:22 PM


Re: towards a solution
Fair enough. If you don't see increased consumption of addictive/damaging substances as a negative thing then there really isn't much to discuss.
-
he current position is as clearly a failure and it is time to step back and try something different.
The current system is a relative failure. Relative to a better system that is. Unless the alternative can reasonably be expected to improve on the current then there is no reason to change. The fact that the current has failings doesn't mean anything else is better.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by jar, posted 12-26-2010 6:22 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by jar, posted 12-26-2010 7:55 PM iano has not replied

  
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