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Author Topic:   Faith healing:proof of god, or placebo effect?
Kairyu
Member
Posts: 162
From: netherlands
Joined: 06-23-2010


Message 1 of 77 (598053)
12-27-2010 2:56 PM


I recently deconverted from Christianity in Atheism. Being able to think more critically, I now think much of Christianity doesn't make much sense.
However, I think most people have heard stories about people getting healed by prayer. But on the contrary, the placebo effect has been show to have astounding effect. But not only for praying, but also for non-religious matters. If you believe something, like a pill being good for you, it can have powerful positive effects, even when a pill doesn't really work. So you can explain faith healing for the most part with placebo.
But sometimes you hear stories of healings that normally seem to be impossible. These seem to be strong evidence, and yet, these stories are often heard from somebody else. I'm supecting that these stories are often blown up, also because the placebo effect could have something to do with it. I also heard sometimes people think something is healed, but it already was almost healed, or it didn't turn out to be healed at all.
Yet, although it's shaky, I can't fully rebuke it yet, and that's why I brought it up. Due to my own reasons, I am highly skeptical of actual supernatural healing taking place. So I am hoping some of the skeptics of this forum can provide attentional information and discussion.
Edited by AdminModulous, : removed inadvertant smiley from thread title.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Omnivorous, posted 12-27-2010 3:45 PM Kairyu has not replied
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 Message 6 by Rahvin, posted 12-27-2010 4:55 PM Kairyu has not replied
 Message 7 by lyx2no, posted 12-27-2010 6:01 PM Kairyu has replied
 Message 9 by Panda, posted 12-27-2010 6:27 PM Kairyu has not replied
 Message 16 by frako, posted 12-28-2010 7:32 AM Kairyu has not replied
 Message 27 by Solomon18, posted 12-29-2010 5:13 AM Kairyu has replied

  
Kairyu
Member
Posts: 162
From: netherlands
Joined: 06-23-2010


Message 17 of 77 (598115)
12-28-2010 7:37 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by lyx2no
12-27-2010 6:01 PM


Re: Astounding Science-Fiction
I have read some information about the placebo effect on wikipedia, and I heard some bits about scientific research. This isn't much, and I have poor understanding of it, hence why I stirred up debate.
With ''astounding'' I meant that there's often a strong positive or negative effect when somebody believes in something. I was not talking about placebo going against the laws of nature, that would be science-fiction indeed. Once of the reasons I was confused by faith healing, is that alleged healing sometimes seems to go against what is normally possible.
Still, if you don't overestimate the effect of placebo, you can use it for positive means. Even when it stays within nature, it can still be astounding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by lyx2no, posted 12-27-2010 6:01 PM lyx2no has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Dogmafood, posted 12-28-2010 8:37 AM Kairyu has replied
 Message 20 by lyx2no, posted 12-28-2010 11:07 AM Kairyu has not replied

  
Kairyu
Member
Posts: 162
From: netherlands
Joined: 06-23-2010


Message 19 of 77 (598121)
12-28-2010 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Dogmafood
12-28-2010 8:37 AM


Re: Astounding Science-Fiction
You could say that, but placebo also work for other religions, and non-religious matters.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Dogmafood, posted 12-28-2010 8:37 AM Dogmafood has not replied

  
Kairyu
Member
Posts: 162
From: netherlands
Joined: 06-23-2010


Message 30 of 77 (598195)
12-29-2010 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Solomon18
12-29-2010 5:13 AM


Re: The Work of Satan not Placebo
Eh, I can't work out for sure if you're a atheist or a Christian. Judging by the last part.
The Satan argument seems a panic button for me. I don't like fear arguments, especially when directed at people who don't have the knowledge to rebuke it. Besides, there's enough non-religious placebo, not to mention minor placebo, to rule out supernatural influences as the only possible cause.
And the biggest healings are always seem rare cases of a recovery, that got blown up because praying was involved, or a story that, as said before, are mostly ''from a friend from a friend''.
I'm personally trying to gather information about placebo, and that evidence healings have naturalistic causes in this topic.
Edited by WSW24, : error in last sentence

This message is a reply to:
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