Can a valid, supportable reason be offered for deconversion

because it's right there. that's the great thing about writing stuff down. we can go and read it later. it would be one thing if DrJones had communicated in a transient way, like vocally, that "the sky is green", but he did not. he wrote it down. and i know you (could have easily) read it, because you quoted it.all i have to do then is compare what you wrote to what he wrote.

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it's not too late for you to start now, ICANT.

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sure. but that actually is not what happened here. rather, we have a written source, quoted in another written source. we actually have both sources easily at hand. all we have to do is read and compare. there is no allegedly here -- we have the exact source that matthew quoted.dawn has somehow confused reading and believing every word.Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.Edited by arachnophilia, : teh grammorz.

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Then read the testimonials. Duh?You even "participated" in the Deconversion experiences topic here. Why don't you go back and this time actually read the deconversion stories. You should also go to an ex-Christian site or forum, such as http://www.ex-christian.net/, which has many testimonials and discussions of deconversion. The "horse's mouth", duh?In reading such stories over the years, an interesting pattern presents itself. Actually, that pattern becomes immediately apparent, glaringly obvious. Some deconverts left Roman Catholicism and a variety of mainstream churches, but the vast majority of deconverts left some form of fundamentalist, evangelical, and/or conservative Christianity. Furthermore, the stories of those leaving fundamentalism were the more extreme and gut-wrenching stories.Dawn, it cannot be any coincidence that it's your own type of Christian theology that is hemorrhaging members. Something has to be causing it, something peculiar to that theology that they are fleeing. The subtext of your posts is that the solution to deconversion is your own type of indoctrination, but that cannot be true because those ex-fundamentalist deconverts had themselves received that exact same indoctrination.Deny reality all you want. Hide your head deeper and deeper in the sand. Invoke more and more magical "explanations". That won't change reality one whit.Playing the Black Knight ("It's only a scratch!") is only funny when it's not actually happening.Edited by dwise1, : "then" had dropped an "n"

Bullshit!All you could do was close your eyes and stick your fingers in your ears.

As i told you before , association with Christianity is not the same as being rooted and grounded in its tenetsMost of those people dont have firm foundation to support what little they believeOnes like Jaywill, Icant, Buzz and myself clearly have firm foundationI might remind you again that it is you the skeptic and Atheist that is in the low percentage as far as beliefs go.What happened Dewise after thounsands of years, you are still in the single digit representationOh well such is lifeDawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Ok, I'll bite. What is this "firm foundation?"As a person who was indoctrinated into Christianity stating at age 5,
but later left because I could find no foundation even when the initial class stared off with "These are the absolute truths, you cannot question them."

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

And what difference does that make? And I am a Christian, yet so far you have failed to show me any reason I should not throw away all the beliefs you try to market.Edited by jar, : lost an 'a'

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Appeal to the masses is a fallacious argument.But this has already been pointed out to you.Since you continue to use this false logic (despite knowing otherwise) this must mean that you are a dishonest debater.
I am sure that your god is proud of your deceit.

Ok, I'll bite. What is this "firm foundation?" learning and knowing the evidence behind the scriptures, knowing what the scriptures actually teach and the ability to defend those truths is of primary importance in establishing a firm foundationAs you have seen from myself and the otherts here there is much more to Christianity and its defense, than those that have abandoned the faith, so quicklyI dont know who it was that told you not to question anything but they were mistaken.Anywho that itDawn

alright. show of hands. who thinks this actually describes dawn?

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this of course would work in any other situation, excluding claims of inspiration and the miraculous. When someone claims this then attaches it to thier claims and prophecies, it immediately calls into question most of anything else they have to say i know you honestly belief that and in some instances it may be true, not when it comes to claims of the miraculous and put my reputation on the line, if I were to make claims in that connectionOn the other hand looking straight at the text. When the author claims inspiration from God, and the prophecy is said to have COME from God. it immediatley bolsters the fact that since God is involved in the prophecy it can and does have an expanded meaningWithout it the prophecy is really worthless. Because we kn0ow mewn and men alone cannot predict the future I am relatively sure you made these comments, but you have made no prophecies or claims to inspiration from God about your arguments.So there is different form of check and balance that is necessaryThe Bible and Isa makes these claims and they are either true or falseDawn Bertot

Why did you only address half of the points raised by arachnophilia?
Is it because you debate dishonestly; ignoring any information that contradicts your statements?
Is it because you have trouble reading English?
There must be a reason.
Why do you intentionally ignore so much of what arachnophilia posts?It is so frequent in your replies that it can only be a mental disorder or dishonesty.Edited by Panda, : No reason given.Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Dawn, please open your eyes. We're talking about the children raised in fundamentalist/evangelical/conservative Christian churches. Attending Christian schools throughout their childhoods. Or home-schooled. Going to "Jesus Camps" every summer. Getting thoroughly indoctrinated every day of their lives. That is no mere "association" with Chrisitian. That's drowning in it! And the painful process of deconversion that they describe proves it!Dawn, they were as "associated with Christianity" as you.Or are you saying that your Christian churches -- not the mainstream ones, but rather the "True Christian" fundamentalist/evangelical/conservative ones -- and their schools are failing utterly? Remember, 80% of the kids raised and thoroughly indoctrinated as fundamentalist/evangelical/conservative Christians will deconvert, most of them leaving Christianity altogether. That is 4 out of 5, which is a helluva lot. That's not just most of them; that pretty near all of them.So which is it, Dawn? What is causing these thoroughly indoctrinated (not just merely "associated") kids to deconvert in such enormous numbers? Kids thoroughly indoctrinated in theologies virtually identical to your own. Is it something peculiar to your type of theology? Or are your type of churches and Christian schools and youth programs complete failures? Or is it both?You've tried to offer the "solution" of including design in science classes. Well, that is what those kids are raised on in the Christian schools. Why, they even throw in massive amounts of "creation science" as well. Their mass deconversion is convincing evidence that your "solution" doesn't work. Considering that religious liberty was virtually non-existent prior to the Enlightenment (18th Century, when our nation was formed) and harsh religious laws (including death for deconverting from Catholicism) and persecution of any form of religious dissident prevailed in pre-Enlightenment Europe, I don't see where you get that "thousands of years" from.But our numbers are growing, Dawn, thanks to you and other "true Christians". Your children are fleeing your theology and joining us, in droves. And you're too frightened for your own faith (your defense mechanisms are a large part of your reason for denying reality with such determination) to even care, writing off 80% of your next generation as slackard hang-abouts.Thank you for your generous contributions to the growth and spread of atheism, Dawn. Do please continue to donate as generously as you have in the past.Edited by dwise1, : added short historical note

HUH?Of course men can predict the future.BUT, Biblical Prophecy is not about predicting the future. It is a Godly dope-slap, God telling man that if they continue a certain behavior this is what God will do.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!