Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 78 (8896 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 03-22-2019 11:00 AM
50 online now:
AZPaul3, Diomedes, edge, JonF, PaulK, Phat (AdminPhat), Tangle, vimesey (8 members, 42 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: WookieeB
Post Volume:
Total: 848,545 Year: 3,582/19,786 Month: 577/1,087 Week: 167/212 Day: 9/25 Hour: 0/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev12345
6
Author Topic:   Genetic Equidistance: A Puzzle in Biology?
derwood
Member
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 76 of 89 (599150)
01-05-2011 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Dr Jack
12-18-2010 5:00 AM


quote:
The simple fact is that the genetic distance do not follow simple complexity connection lines.

Especially when "complexity" is defined idiosyncratically and arbitrarily.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Dr Jack, posted 12-18-2010 5:00 AM Dr Jack has not yet responded

    
derwood
Member
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 77 of 89 (599151)
01-05-2011 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Dr Jack
12-18-2010 5:02 AM


quote:
You'd use non-coding regions to compare human populations, for example, but they're useless for comparing humans and yeast.

You can use noncoding DNA in larger scale phylogenetic analyses as well, such all vertebrates. Humans to yeast is a stretch, to say the least, but humans and alligators could still be done.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Dr Jack, posted 12-18-2010 5:02 AM Dr Jack has not yet responded

    
derwood
Member
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 78 of 89 (599152)
01-05-2011 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Theodoric
12-18-2010 9:47 AM


Re: Just FYI for everyone
quote:
Hello, my name is Livingstone Morford (Morford being an alias and a variation of my real name, for anonymity).

I am a staunch Intelligent Design proponent, and an avid opponent of Darwinian evolution.


But he comes across so level-headed and open minded and objective....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Theodoric, posted 12-18-2010 9:47 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
derwood
Member
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 79 of 89 (599153)
01-05-2011 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by molbiogirl
12-18-2010 12:47 PM


quote:
That is, why are humans and orangs "of different biological complexity"?

Why, because orangs do not know Jesus, of course.

After reading through Huang's screeds at Amazon.com, I would not be surprised if he, in fact, was to make such a claim.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by molbiogirl, posted 12-18-2010 12:47 PM molbiogirl has not yet responded

    
derwood
Member
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 80 of 89 (599154)
01-05-2011 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by molbiogirl
12-18-2010 2:57 PM


quote:
Chimpanzee is closer to orangutan or gorilla than human is in DNA.

Which is simply factually incorrect. Surely Mr.Morford knows this?

Edited by derwood, : typo


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by molbiogirl, posted 12-18-2010 2:57 PM molbiogirl has not yet responded

    
derwood
Member
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 81 of 89 (599156)
01-05-2011 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by molbiogirl
12-19-2010 1:01 PM


Re: Dr. Shi Huang
quote:
Shi believes:

1. There are virtually no neutral mutations (only SNPs).
2. Coding DNA is 99.9% of the genome.
3. By "epigenetics" he means "epigenetics".
4. Sequence homology cannot be used to infer genealogical relationships.
5. Micro is the opposite of macro evolution.
6. There is no macroevolution going on right now.
7. There is a "60% maximum because any more mutations will hit the key residues and will abolish gene function and thus affect organism viability" (aka MGD) for all organisms.
8. "The more function a gene performs, the more functional constraints on its mutation, and the less the MGD for this gene."
9. "Humans are the pinnacle of both the tree of life and complexity" and are not apes.
10. Any exception to a "rule" in evolutionary theory negates the theory. Period.
11. MGD has no exceptions. Period.



And as such, it is wise for one with common sense and bit of relevant knowledge to believe that Shi is a crackpot and a poseur.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by molbiogirl, posted 12-19-2010 1:01 PM molbiogirl has not yet responded

    
derwood
Member
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 82 of 89 (599157)
01-05-2011 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by molbiogirl
12-19-2010 5:34 PM


Re: The Crash Promise
quote:
I compared the cytochrome c sequence of two unicellular organisms: Naegleria gruberi and Dictyostelium discoideum.

Next, I aligned the cytochrome c sequence of two organisms as distant as the tuna and humans.


I wonder if Mr.Morford realizes that Naegleria and Dictyostelium are from different PHYLA, whereas humans and tuna are not?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by molbiogirl, posted 12-19-2010 5:34 PM molbiogirl has not yet responded

    
derwood
Member
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 83 of 89 (599158)
01-05-2011 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Livingstone Morford
12-19-2010 7:09 PM


The accumulation of mutations in tissue-specific genes would have no affect on tissues in which the genes are not used.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Livingstone Morford, posted 12-19-2010 7:09 PM Livingstone Morford has not yet responded

    
derwood
Member
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 84 of 89 (599159)
01-05-2011 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by molbiogirl
12-20-2010 12:32 PM


quote:
Dr. Huang is quite adamant that there are virtually no neutral mutations. .1% in fact.

Then I submit that Huang has never bothered to do sequence comparions. Even comparing members of the same species one can find numerous real differences. Steven Pinker and Craig Venter's genomes, for example, differed by many millions of bps, in addition to a nearly 1 million bp indel. Is the correct conclusion really that only a few thousand of those were neutral? Absurd. What is Huang's actual area of expertise? Does anyone know?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by molbiogirl, posted 12-20-2010 12:32 PM molbiogirl has not yet responded

    
derwood
Member
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 85 of 89 (599162)
01-05-2011 9:58 AM


I see that Huang has also had a paper published in Rivista di Biologica, that crack outfit run by a creationist in which one can find pubs by Johnny Wells and John Davison. Of note is how Huang responds to criticisms.

Classic crackpottery. Shame so many have latched onto his nonsense.

Molbiogirl also mentioned this conversation.
Reading Huang's comments, it comes across as classic 'angry arrogant IDcreationist' boilerplate stuff - none of his coworkers thnk much of evolution, evolutionists hatemath, blah blah blah.

Pathetic.

Edited by derwood, : No reason given.

Edited by derwood, : addenda


Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Admin, posted 01-05-2011 10:37 AM derwood has not yet responded
 Message 88 by Admin, posted 01-05-2011 11:31 AM derwood has not yet responded

    
Admin
Director
Posts: 12579
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 86 of 89 (599174)
01-05-2011 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by derwood
01-05-2011 9:58 AM


Please read through the thread first and then post a single message.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by derwood, posted 01-05-2011 9:58 AM derwood has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-05-2011 10:54 AM Admin has acknowledged this reply

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16085
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 87 of 89 (599179)
01-05-2011 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Admin
01-05-2011 10:37 AM


Please read through the thread first and then post a single message.

Hold on. He's replying to different messages. And whenever someone replies to several different messages in a single post we all (including the moderators) tell him not to do that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Admin, posted 01-05-2011 10:37 AM Admin has acknowledged this reply

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12579
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 88 of 89 (599187)
01-05-2011 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by derwood
01-05-2011 9:58 AM


In light of Jar's inquiry, let me clarify.

Please, when you first join a thread, do not do it by beginning with the first message and replying to every message that you think merits a response. Rather, read the thread through to the end then post at most a few replies that maintain the current focus.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by derwood, posted 01-05-2011 9:58 AM derwood has not yet responded

    
Garfed 
Suspended Junior Member (Idle past 2796 days)
Posts: 1
Joined: 04-25-2011


Message 89 of 89 (613519)
04-25-2011 8:36 PM


I tried to think of ways to test your ideas. I want to compare sponge, mammals and fungi, to see their genetic equidistance. Sponge does have a limited gene to control the development, but they are compared to the original gene regulation in mammals, the discovery and development approach....

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Reset spam links.


RS Gold,Buy RS Gold,Buy Runescape Gold
    
Prev12345
6
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019