Evolving the Musculoskeletal System

Hi Bluejay,Thanks for your thoughtful and respectful feedback. I really mean that. Your last 2 posts have a lot of good points of view. I see Huntard logged off before my post reached him. I will give him a little time to respond since this particular conversation was for him. I know what your saying. I have a point I plan to make. It doesn't really matter what the produced product is. Yes I understand that.----- So now your saying Mr. Selection can determine a wrong place then? I give my answer in a bit.
IC

Percy,
Can you lighten up a little and quit being such a tight ass? Dang man, do you moonlite as a prison guard or some thing? If I wanted to get wacked with a ruler all the time I would go enroll at a Catholic School or something. feedback? approval or disapproval? How is this not reasoning ability? Actually with enough time it wouldn't be completely impossible.Do we have an end product that has been assembled? Yes or no?

Actually, no I don't. All you guys seem to be talking about survival of the fittest for up and running, fully developed creatures. What I have been trying to get to is the construction process of creatures to begin with.This whole "self-improvement" program the ToE adheres to is bogus in what would be an impersonal, purposeless and wholly material universe anyway.It should be mentioned here that even among evolutionary theorists there remains widespread disagreement. Because one offspring survives instead of another may not mean it has greater evolutionary potential. The lucky chicken that survived the hungry fox's nocturnal raid on the chicken coop may well have been suffering from insomnia on that night. Survival of the fittest thus becomes "survival of those that survive," which doesn't tell us a great deal.At any rate lets get back to my point of construction, Mr. Chance and your original question of why I think ToE is impossible. In my analogy Mr. Chance would have a chance of success be it ever so slight, correct.
But now lets paint a more accurate analogy of reality and take away Mr. Chances brain all together. No thought. Nothing but a blank screen. What are his chances of building anything now? Zero right? It would be completely impossible.
Evolution is Mr. Chance with no brain. It wouldn't matter if there WAS a Mr. Selection because without thought nothing can happen. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE !! How can evolution build anything if all it has is a blank screen. It comes right back to being so simple a child should be able to understand.ICI have to run but I would like to talk more about the aforementioned systems and purpose when I return tomorrow.

Evolution is full of nothing but double speak. It has no thought, no purpose. no intent, yet constructs all the sophisticated systems that make up life.In the real world a system cannot be built without intelligent thought and action yet you choose to believe evolution is capable of doing so. You can't produce any evidence or model of this impossible feat taking place anywhere on the planet.The best I have ever seen any of you offer is some insignificant little bacteria mutation that shows nothing of how a sophisticated system can construct without intelligence.Please save your "what is your test for a sophisticated system" comments.
That may be valid questioning in your opinion Percy, but its only valid to evolutionists because you have no evidence as to how evolution can produce systems so you play shell games and create a maze of smoke and mirrors that you hide behind.Maybe survival of the fittest is a good enough magic bullet to explain how the impossible became possible for you guys, but it just isn't working for me.

I can prove all day long that it takes intelligence to build a system. The burden of proof is on you to show it can be done without intelligence. Its you who has nothing!

I did respond Percy. Why don't you respond with evidence that a sophisticated system can be created without intelligence? All your survival of the fittest theory can show is death of the unfit.

Show me the observable evidence of natural selection developing sophisticated systems.

Oh yes I can.
I think its pretty brave of you to announce you have no clue what intelligence is.Let me help you out;Definition: intelligence (by Webster's)Noun
1. The ability to comprehend; to understand and profit from experience.
8. The capacity to know or understand; Edited by ICdesign, : No reason given.

As I stated earlier the burden of prove is on the person who claims a system can be built without intelligence. Walking you through the thought process to build a system is all the proof necessary.
Can you thread a needle without the thought process of what needs to be done and how to do it?
No you can't. That process is called intelligence.I really do have better things to do than participate in these childish wastes of time.

Look Percy, for me it all boils down to what I have just recently posted. There is no need to discuss
points B,C,D,E,...when point A doesn't have an answer. Its a waste of my time dealing with all the smoke and mirror shell games you guys throw out there about what is intelligent or intentional purpose and so-forth.I can prove you can't build a system without an intelligent process. Until any of you can prove it CAN be done, I have nothing further to say.Thanks,
IC

Again, that is fine if you and yours want to believe such a story. In the real observable world we live in we see no such ability. ToE goes against everything we know to be true in the observable, testable world. Sophisticated systems require conscious intent.ICdesignEdited by ICdesign, : No reason given.

Was there a computer involved? Where did the materials come from to construct? Who constructed the systems? Was intelligence involved to determine what the designs were useful for? Would the systems exist if intelligent man did not determine they were useful then construct them? Did the systems construct themselves? Shall I go on?

actually your point was that their was no intelligent imput and you were proven wrong.

There is an Euglena that has a light sensing spot because that is the feature God chose to give it for its environment. You have an octopus that God designed with its type of eye and many variations in between. So what? You claim it is evidence for evolution we claim it is evidence of a creative Creator. Show me what you are talking about. So what Percy? How does a little change in shape and hard or soft spots explain how an entire complex system develops that performs a very specific task? We have system after system after sophisticated system that perform intentional purposes. Hard spots is your evidence as to how this happens? Are you friggin kidding me? This is exactly what I mean about a waste of precious time. Ho Hum.
Because a computer is intelligence. Coming up with a design on a computer program is not simulating evolution. If man has to help in the outcome of a design, it is not evolution.
What part of this don't you guys understand? No it isn't. In the real world we see it takes conscious intent to design and build systems.

void for nowEdited by ICdesign, : No reason given.