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Author Topic:   What is Life?
john6zx
Member (Idle past 4060 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 01-27-2007


Message 261 of 268 (600037)
01-12-2011 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by 1.61803
09-13-2010 10:43 AM


Re: what is life,,,baby dont hurt me baby dont....
So energy existed before life? Is that what you are saying?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by 1.61803, posted 09-13-2010 10:43 AM 1.61803 has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by ringo, posted 01-12-2011 1:34 AM john6zx has replied
 Message 263 by Taq, posted 01-12-2011 12:03 PM john6zx has taken no action
 Message 264 by frako, posted 01-12-2011 7:22 PM john6zx has taken no action

  
john6zx
Member (Idle past 4060 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 01-27-2007


Message 265 of 268 (600346)
01-14-2011 2:15 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by ringo
01-12-2011 1:34 AM


Ringo, you think energy came before life.

Lets see. All energy is in the form of a particle or a wave, all energy is motion. Now I am going to have to assume that you know that energy is not alive, that energy can not think, that energy is not a sentient thing. Right?

All right, since you say energy came before life then I will also have to assume that you are not of the thinking that a god or supreme being created this universe. Right?

So that leaves us with the Big Bang theory. Something was created from nothing. This theory leads science to believe that life was created by some supernatural mixture of chemicals and energy. So basically everything in this physical universe is either a particle or wave according to the "logic" of this Big Bang theory.

Alright to make this simple I will use the idea of a tin can to represent a something out of nothing. A tin can is made of energy just like anything else in this universe.

O.K. We start out with nothing. No space, no time, no wave lenghts of energy, no particles. Nothing. Then a tin can appears through some explosion, or action.

Now energy did not exist before the action so it had to be created. You see if there was no life before the BB then the object or energy would have to do the creating, if all there was was nothing and then energy, then energy would have to create itself.

If there was nothing in this universe and then a tin can appeared by whatever means you like, then that tin can had to get the ball rolling, get the whole process started BEFORE it was a tin can.

An object or energy can not decide or put into action creation of itself or anything before it exists. A tin can decides to become a tin can and then becomes a tin can..... NO. An explosion decides to put into action the process that is going to create it? NO WAY.

The explosion creates the very energy that it is made of BEFORE it is made. NO.

Something has have the ability to create, to think of creating, to be able to create. Matter, energy, space and time do not have these qualities. You may not agree that life came before energy, so can you at least explain how something that does not exist can create itself. The BB theory just doesn't logically work. I am not here to promote the idea of any religious god either. I am just looking at what science says about logic, scientific method, the laws of physics, and using common sense to see that energy could not exist BEFORE it created itself.

{Please, no one reply to this pile of incoherence - Adminnemooseus}

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Killed crappy subtitle.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner etc.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by ringo, posted 01-12-2011 1:34 AM ringo has seen this message

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-14-2011 3:08 AM john6zx has taken no action
 Message 267 by john6zx, posted 01-15-2011 2:21 AM john6zx has taken no action

  
john6zx
Member (Idle past 4060 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 01-27-2007


Message 267 of 268 (600534)
01-15-2011 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by john6zx
01-14-2011 2:15 AM


john6zx said;

Ringo, you think energy came before life.
Lets see. All energy is in the form of a particle or a wave, all energy is motion. Now I am going to have to assume that you know that energy is not alive, that energy can not think, that energy is not a sentient thing. Right?

All right, since you say energy came before life then I will also have to assume that you are not of the thinking that a god or supreme being created this universe. Right?

So that leaves us with the Big Bang theory. Something was created from nothing. This theory leads science to believe that life was created by some supernatural mixture of chemicals and energy. So basically everything in this physical universe is either a particle or wave according to the "logic" of this Big Bang theory.

Alright to make this simple I will use the idea of a tin can to represent a something out of nothing. A tin can is made of energy just like anything else in this universe.

O.K. We start out with nothing. No space, no time, no wave lenghts of energy, no particles. Nothing. Then a tin can appears through some explosion, or action.

Now energy did not exist before the action so it had to be created. You see if there was no life before the BB then the object or energy would have to do the creating, if all there was was nothing and then energy, then energy would have to create itself.

If there was nothing in this universe and then a tin can appeared by whatever means you like, then that tin can had to get the ball rolling, get the whole process started BEFORE it was a tin can.

An object or energy can not decide or put into action creation of itself or anything before it exists. A tin can decides to become a tin can and then becomes a tin can..... NO. An explosion decides to put into action the process that is going to create it? NO WAY.

The explosion creates the very energy that it is made of BEFORE it is made. NO.

Something has have the ability to create, to think of creating, to be able to create. Matter, energy, space and time do not have these qualities. You may not agree that life came before energy, so can you at least explain how something that does not exist can create itself. The BB theory just doesn't logically work. I am not here to promote the idea of any religious god either. I am just looking at what science says about logic, scientific method, the laws of physics, and using common sense to see that energy could not exist BEFORE it created itself.

YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD NOT TO RESPOND TO ME.
AUTHORITY HAS TOLD YOU WHAT TO DO.

Here is what I think about this:

SO THREATNED! What is this? Are you trying to stop all dissent against the established beliefs. This is America, 1st amendment rights. There is nothing I said that needs to be suppressed unless you think it came to close to unraveling your precious established beliefs. What is the harm?

Why cut my communication with no explanation why? This is a dictatorship. Innocent until proven guilty, Right? What happened to free speech? My God this is ridiculous.

No warning. No communication to me saying that I have overstepped the rules. No mention of the rule or rules that I violated. Where is the justice? Tell me why I am being censored! What is this....China!

What harm has been done? What are you afraid of? To actually tell people not to respond to my post with some kind of authoritarian "you know what is best" attitude is sad. Let people make up their own mind and do not tell them what to do.

Don't you have enough respect and confidence in people, especially those that deal in reason, as the ones on this scientific forum to make their own choices?

Are you are going to decide what the participants of this forum are going to do? I make one post and you tell everyone that my statement is off limits, verboten.

Announce what I did was wrong. It is wrong for you to censor me, and it is an action by a coward. You are deciding what others should think. If you don't like what i said fine.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

Voltaire.

"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity"

Albert Einstein

"The trouble with most people is that they think with their hopes or fears or wishes rather than with their minds."

Will Durant:

"The beginning of wisdom is found in doubting; by doubting we come to the question, and by seeking we may come upon the truth."

Pierre Abelard:

"Authority has every reason to fear the skeptic, for authority can rarely survive in the face of doubt"

"The scientist is not a person who gives the right answers, he is one who asks the right questions"

Claude Levi-Strauss

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts".
Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)

“Think for yourself and question authority”

“Every great advance in natural knowledge has involved the absolute rejection of authority.”

Thomas Henry Huxley

Let people communicate! Do not prevent mans natural impulse to question his existance and ask questions. Let people speak and be free to decide their own actions.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by john6zx, posted 01-14-2011 2:15 AM john6zx has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by AdminPD, posted 01-15-2011 6:50 AM john6zx has taken no action

  
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