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Author Topic:   January, 2011, Posts of the Month
ApostateAbe
Member (Idle past 3857 days)
Posts: 175
From: Klamath Falls, OR
Joined: 02-02-2005


Message 4 of 18 (600041)
01-12-2011 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Adminnemooseus
01-01-2011 7:15 PM


Author: Rahvin
Forum: Coffee House
Thread: Evil Muslim conspiracy...
Message #: 1

I nominate this post, not because I especially agree with the conclusion, but because of its grounding in evidence about an obscure but interesting event, the strength of the reasoning, and the remarkably good discussion it provoked.

Edited by ApostateAbe, : fixed link

Edited by ApostateAbe, : fixed link again, it is that good


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Adminnemooseus, posted 01-01-2011 7:15 PM Adminnemooseus has seen this message

ApostateAbe
Member (Idle past 3857 days)
Posts: 175
From: Klamath Falls, OR
Joined: 02-02-2005


Message 10 of 18 (602530)
01-28-2011 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by AZPaul3
01-28-2011 4:28 PM


Re: Recognition (Abortion questions...?)
I wouldn't be saying this if it weren't for the chorus of applause, but I do not think that is such an awesome post, because the claims contained within it are either badly exaggerated or are just not true. There are a helluva lot of soup kitchens, charities, food and clothing drives of churches and charitable missions for the poor that are funded mostly by Christians who are pro-life. Maybe even too many. Please, let's not appreciate encouragement of prejudice inspired by political rhetoric instead of the actual reality. Give another post the Post of the Month.

{This must be "hidden". It doesn't belong here as it is debating the topic and/or disputing the POTM nomination. - Adminnemooseus}

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : See above.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Fix typo.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by AZPaul3, posted 01-28-2011 4:28 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message

ApostateAbe
Member (Idle past 3857 days)
Posts: 175
From: Klamath Falls, OR
Joined: 02-02-2005


Message 14 of 18 (602587)
01-28-2011 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by onifre
01-28-2011 9:20 PM


Re: Recognition
onifre writes:

Thanks for the kudos, especially from 3 fine gents such as yourselves. I'm glad it struck a cord with you, AZPaul3, and I was emotionally driven in a post by a fact that I used to see quite often.

My oldest daughter and I volunteered at a center for teenage girls who were either pregnant or had children - mostly runaways at that - for a school project she had. She had to choose a place to volunteer at and she chose this place, it's not like I'm trying to be all high and mighty. It was her choice. Plus, of course, it was in a rough neighborhood so I didn't want her mom taking her.

What I saw there, from girls a few years older than my daughter (who was 13 at the time,) fucked my head up for a while. That's why I get very emotional with this subject, because it was horrible to see what their lives are like.

All hispanic and black, and from hispanic and black neighborhoods. The kind of neighborhoods that no one even goes into. That has lots of un-aborted kids on the streets that we then call drug addicts and criminals. And lock up. And don't hire. And don't trust. And don't want them near us.

So ApostateAbe, drive into one of those neighborhoods and save a few of those un-aborted kids on the streets; get them to stop selling drugs, to go to school, see how that works out for you since you wanted him/her to live so badly. Go make sure they are living ok. If not, then really, shut up and join the rest of the self-righteous people who call themselves pro-life, but who do nothing to help that life once it is born.

And beside, relax, it's not like they gave me a fucking Oscar! It's a PotM, I think it's my second. Let me enjoy it, dick.

- Oni

There is certainly no way that I would rejoin the society of the pro-life. My position on abortion is so pro-choice that you may only see it in the Bronze Age, in a way that almost every pro-choice advocate would find absolutely horrifying. You are probably much more pro-life than me, and you would want me locked up if I told you the details.

The issue of abortion is mostly a subjective moral thing--whether or not it is OK to give parents the right to end the lives of their own offspring early in the reproductive process. I can tolerate the moral opinions of someone who believes that rights to life begin as early as possible, the same as I can tolerate the corresponding pro-choice positions. Sometimes, though, misrepresentations of the objective reality are presented in the debates, and that really rubs me the wrong way. More than anything else, I am an advocate of belief in the objective truth, and it is very difficult to sit by while claims that I know are untrue are encouraged like truth. As independent thinking and liberal as I consider myself today, I was socialized in a conservative pro-life environment, and I am intimately familiar with the modes of thought that are common among them. And they are most certainly not uncaring for the poor. They have what it takes to show for it, not just in the everyday personal observations of the Christian societies, but in the sociological science. Look it up on Google Scholar. Here: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,25&q=rel...

I know that things look different from your perspective. How could conservative religious people be so charitable when there are so many poor people in our country who are barely able to eat? The problem would be that the relatively wealthy rich church-going conservatives are not doing nearly enough to change a situation that is very very big. Hell, even if they did as Jesus commanded, to give EVERYTHING they have to the poor, then the wealth would soon run out, the formerly poor would generally become poor again and the formerly rich would generally become rich again, because of the powerful advantages and disadvantages that are inherent in the respective societies, families and individuals. Those advantages and disadvantages relate to the politics, the economy, the knowledge, the skills, the cultures, and the genetics.

This means, if you have not been part of the conservative Christian society, then you don't know how much that conservative Christians are doing for the poor until you go out of your way and observe it. I think such a prejudice against conservative Christians is not just personally delusional but also socially harmful. They are giving more, but you punish them by claiming that they give absolutely nothing. What a horrible thing to proclaim, even if it comfortably strokes one's ideological antipathy.

{Content hidden. Not the place to debate the topic. - Adminnemooseus}

Edited by ApostateAbe, : grammar

Edited by ApostateAbe, : grammar again

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : See above.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by onifre, posted 01-28-2011 9:20 PM onifre has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by crashfrog, posted 01-29-2011 1:23 AM ApostateAbe has taken no action
 Message 16 by cavediver, posted 01-29-2011 4:15 AM ApostateAbe has replied

ApostateAbe
Member (Idle past 3857 days)
Posts: 175
From: Klamath Falls, OR
Joined: 02-02-2005


Message 17 of 18 (602603)
01-29-2011 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by cavediver
01-29-2011 4:15 AM


Re: Recognition
cavediver writes:

This means, if you have not been part of the conservative Christian society, then you don't know how much that conservative Christians are doing for the poor

I have, for most of my adult life, and I see the effort that goes into pro-life and pro-abstinance - for all the good intentions and acts for the poor, they remain part of the problem, not the solution.

Anyway, this is not a debate thread so let us take this elsewhere.


No disagreement on either point.

{Content hidden. - Adminnemooseus}

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : See above.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by cavediver, posted 01-29-2011 4:15 AM cavediver has taken no action

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