Evolving the Musculoskeletal System

The antennae design program used a simulated model of evolution as its design mechanism. This means they began with an initial population of antennae designs. The antennae designs were assessed for performance, and then the best antennae designs were selected (the analog of natural selection) for random pairing for "mating" by combining their design parameters (the analog of DNA) and randomly modifying some of those parameters in minute ways (the analog of random mutations) to produce "offspring" antennae. The process then repeats with the new generation of antennae designs being assessed for performance and mating pairs chosen, and so forth for some number of generations.Using a simulation of evolution in this way produced a better performing antennae than humans could achieve, and it illustrates the power of the evolutionary approach. Evolution has been observed in both nature and the lab, and it violates no known laws of physics. If the watering hole on the savanna didn't exist then the animals using the watering hole wouldn't exist, either. So by your criteria the watering hole must have an objective purpose. You're doing a great job of calling 'em as you see 'em. Actually discussing the arguments and evidence put before you, not so well. But there *are* more than two choices. Science does not believe the heart "just happened to show up" or that "someone put it there on purpose." Science believes the heart evolved in the same way way that all other structures evolved, one little step at a time through descent with modification filtered by natural selection. I think it's time for you to do more discussing and less posturing.--Percy

Remember, evolution is not about how life began. Evolution is about how one species evolves into another, and at a more detailed level is about how populations change over time. Therefore, doing design using a simulated model of evolution has to have a population of somethings evolving over time.This is what all design programs do that use genetic algorithms (models of the evolutionary process). They begin with a population of somethings, usually the best that humans can achieve. They then assess their goodness according to some criteria (analog of natural selection), and next choose the best to "mate" by combining parameters while making minor random modifications to them (analog of descent with modification). They then repeat this process through many generations, and the result is a better something than humans could achieve.Genetic algorithms make improvements one little step at a time, just like evolution. They choose the best from each generation to contribute to the next, just like evolution. And they make minor random changes in each generation, just like evolution. Genetic algorithms are an illustration of the ability of evolution to produce innovations.You keep making the mistake of thinking evolution is directed when it is not. There is no goal in evolution. Natural processes have no way of knowing which random mutations will work out and which won't, but natural selection working through the pressures imposed by the environment makes these decisions. Environments change, and what was useful in one environment (e.g., thick fur in cold climes) could be a severe disadvantage in others (thick fur in hot climes).Structures can even change function. To create an analogy to nature using our antennae example, perhaps prior to becoming an antennae species it was an earring tree species, but then the "environment" changed and the incipient antennae capability of the earring tree provided an advantage, and over the generations its performance as an antennae was fine-tuned and the earring tree function lost or much diminished. Assessing performance of antennae requires intelligence, and in the genetic algorithm the assessment and choosing of the best is the analog of natural selection. This thread isn't about the origin of life. If you mean that we should literally show you evolution that took millions of years then of course we can't do that. We can't show you an electron, either. What we can do is what we have done, which is explain how the evolutionary process produces innovation and complexity through tiny changes whose effects are assessed with the best changes making it to the next generation. Evolution has been observed. Breeders observed evolution thousands of years before Darwin, with "breeder selection" replacing natural selection. Every reproductive event is another example of evolution, since the mating parties obviously survived to reproduce (natural selection), and the offspring include mutations that make it in tiny ways unlike either parent (descent with modification). I don't know, you tell me, since things being created with "objective purpose" is your idea, not mine. What I said was that since you claimed that a heart has "objective purpose" because if it didn't exist then the person wouldn't exist, therefore a watering hole has "objective purpose" because if it didn't exist then the animals using it wouldn't exist either, the point being that you were wrong to say the watering hole only had "subjective purpose", and further that this was because you hadn't really thought through your criteria for determining "objective purpose" and were just making things up as you went along.--Percy Edited by Percy, : Punctuation.

Found this over at NeuroDojo: The beginnings of bone, here's a very relevant excerpt pertaining to why what ICdesign is doing is so much easier than what we are doing: I think we could dig out some good information about the current state of knowledge about the origin and evolution of bones, but it would take some effort. Someone in the last day or so posted a few pictures of creatures with more primitive bones than mammals, but it would probably be helpful if we could find examples of extant creatures with just a simple cartilaginous hard part or two. There's the single-celled diatoms (a type of algae) whose cell walls are made of silica.--Percy

Found a couple articles at Wikipedia about the earliest creatures with skeletons of some sort. Here's a brief excerpt about the Namacalathus, an Ediacaran fossil: This excerpt is from the Wikipedia article on Cloudinid: So the earliest examples of skeletons in the fossil record were very, very simple, but we know very little about these organisms.--PercyEdited by Percy, : Increase image margins.Edited by Percy, : Grammar.