Intelligent Design vs. Real Science

The Biblical creationist ID argument boils down to whether ample verifiable evidence for that record exists supportive to that record. The more supportive evidence that can be reasonably verified, the more credible that record becomes and the more susect becomes the methodology of established secularistic minded theory.The problem for Biblical creationist IDists becomes the need to debate evidence considered too religious, too philosophical and too cultural for the science fora for corroborating existing physical archeological, historical and scientific research also attributed to supporting the Biblical record.Religious, philosophical and cultural data, when supportive to the Biblical ID creationist hypothesy, becomes a valid part and parcel of the Biblical ID creationist scientific methodology.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Perhaps this is why they fall short of aired corroborating evidenced data in this area.Leaders like ICR, do btw, apply some of this evidence that secularists consider non-scientific. Their hypothesis premise, for example, relative to their research would not be considered scientific in the EvC science fora.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

If I had my druthers, science classes should have the freedom to apply all of the evidence supportive to ID, including that evidence which conventional science disallows.By it's nature, ID implicates creationism and creationism implicates a power/energy. existing in the Universe, capable of creating and designing things in the universe.The ID hypothesis, especially that of the Biblical record must debate with half our brains/evidence quietly hid behind our backs.A number of years ago, here at EvC I debated the highly esteemed physicist member, Eta Carena on what if the sun were relatively suddenly created?. My argument was that if the sun were relatively suddenly created as per the Biblical record, it would appear to be over 30 million years old because, as I understand, it takes that long for the average protostar to become a full fledged star.Eta became very angry and caustic towards me in that debate, but he never effectively refuted my argument.Some of these kinds of arguments involve what the science constituency regard as religious, philosophical, etc.Bottom line: If you want an objective debate between secularists and Biblical creationists but you disallow any evidence not physical/natural, you kill the debate. Thus the scientifially astute creationists who show up don't stay long.This follows through in the field of education. In the science departments, one must follow the secular line for employment. Thus the evidence for ID is never known by the young impressional empty minds waiting to be filled with knowledge. They graduate with their minds programmed by the assembly line of secularism.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

That's bare and over simplistic, Oni, but that's it if you limit your understanding of the hypothesis to three little words. Volumns would be required to cite all of the evidence supportive to the existence of that entity, alleged to have done it.

There are a number of important aspects of Intelligent Design that are unique to the Buzsaw position. The Buzsaw position has never been that the Solar System was created a few thousand years ago.The literal interpretation of day four of Genesis one, when the sun was created is that at some time on day four creation of the sun was created. However, in that it was not completed until the end of day four, it is not known how long days one through four were. The text says that one of the functions of the sun is to determine the 24 hour day. There was another source of light and determination of the length of each day before the work of creating the sun was completed.I know that this is a unique Buzsaw rendition of the text, but it is more literal to the text than the conventional YEC rendition.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

He did it over a period of time, expending energy and working. He intelligently fashioned, from the elements, things which he intended to make. When he designed the animals and mankind, for example, he took soil, intelligently assembling the elements into what he wished to make. In that he, having a higher intelligence than that of the creatures which he made, including mankind, he had the knowledge and ability to assemble and fashion the elements into what pleased him to make.(abe: After he fashioned the body he inflated the lungs with his life giving breath, having properties suitable for initiating life into the fashioned body.)That his degree of intelligence was greater than that of the creative ability of his creature, mankind, can be compared to the degree of the difference in the intelligence of mankind to the intelligence of, say, a snail and that of mankind. That of mankind is manifold; being greater than that of the snail.As per 2Lot, this effected a measure of equilibrium of energy, in that after Jehovah had finished the work which he had done, there was the need for him to rest.The degree of intelligence existing in the entire universe cannot necessarily be determined by that which we humans experience on our tiny speck in the universe which we call Planet Earth. Edited by Buzsaw, : As noted

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

When he designed the animals and mankind, for example, he took soil, intelligently assembling the elements into what he wished to make. In that he, having a higher intelligence than that of the creatures which he made, including mankind, he had the knowledge and ability to assemble and fashion the elements into what pleased him to make.

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After he fashioned the body he inflated the lungs with his life giving breath, having properties suitable for initiating life into the fashioned bodyHaving the intelligence significantly higher than a snail, mankind is able to transform trees, gravel, forces, iron/copper/lead etc ore, oil, etc into a beautiful home. The snail's intelligence cannot comprehend how mankind made the home, but humans who do not understand electromagnetism, wood processing and how to make plastic etc, who do not build homes observe that it can be done.We, like the snail observe ordered complex systems, organisms and forces etc existing. Having higher intelligence than the snail, however, we can observe corroborating evidences of the Biblical god, Jehovah via the prophecies, archeological phenomena and historical events which are supportive to the existence of an intelligent designer.Thus the topic debate of this thread, Intelligent Design vs Real Science boils down to debating the evidence supportive to such a designer.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

By the same token, precisely how did each step of evolution allegedly progress into something as complex as the human brain? No generalities or speculative possibilities allowed. You must precisely explain each progressive factor which accomplished the feat and how each factor overcame the tendency of order to regress into disorder all the way from bio-genesis to the modern human brain with all of it's complexity.Also your problem would be to refute each corroborative evidence supportive to the existence of the Biblical designer as per the Biblical record. By the same token, without conjecture, possibilities, and/or assumptions ,precisely how did each progressive factor life giving breath overcome each regressive obstacle and progress into the modern function of the human lung? You have two problems. You need models for each progressive step of my propositions above and you need to empirically falsify each of the many corroborative evidences of the existence of a designer existing in the Universe having a higher intelligence than what we experience on the tiny speck called Planet Earth; that is a designer capable of fashioning elements available into a functional body and breathing charged energetic elements into the lungs of the fashioned body to bring the fashioned body to life as we observe it.The work of such a designer required rest after expending the needful energy from the higher energetic designer entity into the created being, as per 2LoT.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

Thanks for your response, Otto. You have cited the elaborate neuronal structures and the DNA. That's a long way up the ladder into complex systems.Where I see your difficulty is from bio-genesis and the early stages of evolution where bio-genesis is most unlikely and if the odds eventually come out with life, order to chaos is manifoldly more likely than a steady progression of disorder to order, having no genes, DNA and whatever else to enhance progression of lifeless matter into life and/or primitive life into complex systems. That's just not what we observe in the real here and now. Order tends to chaos and if you get lucky, LoL on progressing from step 1 all of the way up to billions of exceedingly complex systems, for more complex than anything man can create with all of his intelligence going for him. Mr. natural, having no brain is just to dumb to do up the cosmos, the forces and all of the complex systems which we observe. Go to my profile. I've cited a number of them. The evidence lies in the evidence for the validity of the Biblical record and the existence of Jehovah, the Biblical god. The model is an intelligent builder who takes raw materials and designs complex things which require planning, work and time, all of which Jehovah applied to creating the creature. I've always argued for an infinite closed perpetual machine system, Jehovah existing somewhere in the cosmos of the system, having forever managed, created and destroyed things in the system to please him. This too is somewhere in my profile archives. Hey, my brethren YECs consider the Buzsaw Hypothesis about as daffy as you people do, until I explain it to them and challenge them to refute it. They try to stuff an infinite god into a finite Universe, etc. Well, this is an evolutionist vs creationist board. Don't expect my creationism to jive with evolution. I've become absolutely positive that Jehovah exists and the Bible is a reliable record. I've been studiously into creationism for over six decades since my conversion. For going on eight years I've weighed Biblical creationism with what I see here on this board and found what I see here to be wanting on many counts. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

Otto, where have you been when we've been debating these subjective fixations and interpretations of cited prophecy evidence over the years? You're having now to resort to personal malignment due to the inability to refute the specifics of my message to which you're responding. Perhaps I should have elaborated. Infinite in time and in space, that is. If you have infinite boundless space,, how can there be an outside of? My understanding of the law is that equilibrium can be regulated by work and management. Again, the Biblical application lies in the evidence for the Biblical intelligent designer. Whimsical and evidence are quite difference. You can begin with addressing the specifics of my message relating to abiogenesis and the problems cited with alleged early stages of life. How do these probabilities stack up with the probabilities of intelligent design, etc? Methinks more is going for my premise and hypothesis, applying logic, probability and observable evidence.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

Since there's nothing complex about it, being likely naturally caused by things dropping from the sky, it is not designed.There's nothing about it that would diminish the arguments for intelligent design.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

I meant to say that the phenomenon was not intelligently designed. Have there been tests for meteor strikes in the region? If a meteor shower struck the terrain, containing relatively similar type rocks, perhaps it created the mounds. Erosion would wash the higher rocks so as to distinguish them from the surrounding terrain.What do geophysicists say caused the phenomenon?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

I meant to say they were not intelligently designed.They would have been naturally designed, but not complex.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

I am interested. I Googled but did not know what to call them so didn't get hits. You tell me. Perhaps then I can give an objective answer to the questions. What's the big secret? You''re the geophysicist.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.