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Member (Idle past 4830 days) Posts: 400 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: When does killing an animal constitute murder? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Straggler writes:
Respect was one of the reasons why I didn't wipe out the ant colony or the wasp colony.
You haven't demonstrated any "respect" for any species at all. Straggler writes:
I've done no such thing. I've said that morality isn't the be-all and end-all magic cause of all behaviour that you seem to think it is. I've said that, for example, social pressure is often a larger factor than individual morality.
All you have done is deny that there are moral reasons for curbing one's behaviour. Straggler writes:
You seem to have that backwards. And you want to lecture me about morality and empathy? Edited by ringo, : Fixed quote. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Straggler writes:
From your own source:
If this claim were true you would indisputably possess a dangerous lack of personal empathy for your fellow man and be warranting of the term psychopath. quote: Straggler writes:
It's the same empathy and respect that I have for the ant colony and the wasp colony. And you have stated that the predominant reasons you don't personally go round killing people are because you have "never had an opportunity to kill a human being and get away with it" and that the "social implications to swatting humans" have "consequences". So tell me - Where is the empathy or respect in that? "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Straggler writes:
It's like being a part of one big happy family. (I have forty-nine first cousins, so I have an inkling.) When George gets stepped on, everybody notices when he doesn't come home. So tell me - What does it fell like to be an ant? "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Straggler writes:
I remember seeing a movie or TV show years ago in which a character said, "I thought smallpox had been extinct for years." My first thought was that making smallpox extinct didn't seem appropriate. Equal rights for bacteria? I've also seen "public service" announcements for a Purple Loosestrife Eradication Project. I can see advising people not to put a highly-aggressive plant in their gardens but "eradicating" it seems like going a bridge too far. It's funny how we can get all up in arms about saving some obscure species in the Brazilian rain forest, yet we don't bat an eye at trying to destroy other "inconvenient" species.
Straggler writes:
I don't think genuine empathy can be discriminatory like that. I think singling out humans is only one step away from singling out white humans or German white humans. If you genuinely see no empathy based reason to accord greater moral consideration to humans.... "They came for the ants and I wasn't an ant, so I didn't speak up." "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Straggler writes:
You very specifically have been throughout the thread putting humans on a pedestal above other species. You put apes on the step below us and cows on the step below that. You clearly put fruit flies and cockroaches close to the bottom of the "value" ladder. I very specifically didn’t single out humans. So, if sentience is your criterion, why not gradate humans by degree of sentience too? That's what they used to do: "Black people don't mind having their children taken away from them because they don't have the same feelings as white people." Discrimination has to start somewhere. Usually, it starts with making unnecessary distinctions between groups. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Straggler writes:
As I've been saying all along, it depends on the individual situation. There is no blanket easy answer. For example, I do not support the wholesale eradication of intestinal bacteria.
The 'Great Bacterium Project'. Equal rights for bacteria. Would you support such a project? Straggler writes:
On the contrary, when colonies of people are wiped out (by other people) it is usually because of arbitrary distinctions such as, "You're a Hutu and I'm a Tutsi." Without such distinctions the only thing stopping you from randomly wiping out colonies of innocent people is the social and legal implications of doing so. Predetermined moral considerations are only a small step above moral considerations prescribed by a flying spook. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Straggler writes:
On the contrary, it's the consistent rulebooks that are based on whims like eye colour. I might choose blue eyes in one situation and brown eyes in another.
Without any consistent means of distinction your moral decisions are simply made on a whim. Straggler writes:
If the thread was about the most efficient way to kill WASPs, my answer would still be that I prefer not to kill them at all. Simply saying "it's individual" and applying the vacuity that is "do no harm" tells us nothing about how you personally come to moral conclusions in this context. Which is supposed to be what this thread is about. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Straggler writes:
So was Charles Manson's. The personal moral position I have put forward in this thread is both honest and consistent. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Straggler writes:
That consistency isn't always a good thing. And your point is what? "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Do you have any empathy for the strawmen that you're beating the stuffing out of?
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Straggler writes:
We? Nobody's complaining but you. If you have any basis for your moral reasoning beyond arbitrary random whim regarding things like eye colour or toenail length - We have yet to see it in this thread. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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