The evolution of hell: how rhetoric changes religion

Still, the topic seems to be centered on the concept of hell, and I don't see any relevant relation between that and Darwin's theory.

As for the describing these different notions of hell as simply being different "rhetoric", I suspect that some theists would view that as a misstatement, because for them, it's a matter of foundational dogma, such that you can't be a "true Christian" (or "true Muslim") if you don't accept the "correct" notion. I even suspect there are some who call themselves Christian and don't actually believe or accept any notion of hell. Go figure...

I personally agree that it's ultimately a matter of rhetoric, since all assertions about the Christian notion of "life after death" are based on nothing more than speculations about various dreams and made-up stories. But apart from acknowledging the fact that religion is ultimately just an artifact of human language and cognitive patterns, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by talking about "how rhetoric changes religion."

Hi Abe,

What do modern definitions of hell have to do with anything?

There are those who say it is the grave.

There are those who say it does not exist.

There are those who say God is such a loving God He would not put anyone in hell.

There are those who say God does not exist.

I will let you in on a little secret. It does not matter what anyone believes or says about the existence of hell or God. The only thing that matters is what is recorded in the Biblical Text.

Hell is not the final destination of those who do not accept the free full pardon offered by God.

The lake of fire is the final destination of the devil and his angels and all those whose names are not written in the Book of Life.

Now if God does not exist then it is all a lie and those who do not believe in God does not have anything to worry about.

God Bless,

Hi Abe,

So you are 100% sure that people make up God and believe in their mind that He does exist.

You are a little less than 100% sure that God does not exist in reality.

You are 100% sure you have a problem if God does exist in reality.

You base that on the stories of a place that is called hell.

You are correct in the belief that many have used the scare tactic of using the fear of hell to control people and get them to join their religion.

I was even guilty of that some 45 years ago as that is what was being taught and is still taught by many.

But I learned very quickly that a man convinced of something against his will is unconvinced still.

So if I could scare you into saying a prayer asking for salvation when you were not really convinced that God exists I would be doing more harm than good.

This has been done for the past 100 years or more and the actions and lives of those people is the reason for the attitude today towards christianity.

What do you base the odds of heaven and hell being small on?

Either God exists or God does not exist.

If God exists then heaven and hell exist.

If God does not exist then heaven and hell do not exist.

I make that out to be a 50% chance heaven and hell exist.

I am sure the choir will tell me how wrong I am.

Just as they brought up Pascal's Wager.

I was convinced by God that He does exist and because of that I accepted His offer of a free full pardon. Because of that I have live 62 years since then without a worry about anything. God has provided everything I have ever needed.

There is no way I can convince you or anyone else that God does exist. Neither is there any way I can scare you into believing in God. If you do not believe in God you can not be scared by a story about hell.

If God can not convince you He exists there is no way I can.

Let me take a stab at correcting your version of Pascal's Wager.

First of all if God exist you are doomed to spend eternity in the lake of fire. That is a fact.

Second if God exist He offers you a free full pardon.

Since you do not believe God exists in reality there is no choice for you to make. Thus no wager to make.

Now if you did believe God exists as some here do and then refuse to accept His offer of a free full pardon then you would be making a wager.

God Bless,

Hi Abe,

I used to think it was my job to convince people they needed to be saved.

Eventually after much study I realized it was not my job to get people saved as that is the Holy Spirits job.

It is my job to tell them what the Word says and then it is up to them to make their own decision.

When I sit down and talk with someone about their relationship with God and I present God's plan I do not repeat it until they ask for help.

A lost person is just like a drug addict or alcoholic no one can help either until they come to the conclusion they have a problem, and decide they want help.

God Bless,

In my opinion the effect on people who already believe the religion is another thing. Here it is used to reinforced their faith, to persuade them to get reborn (even the same person could get reborn many times). For this some evangelist preacher even used the recording of 'cries from hell in Siberia' by playing the audio loudly to the listeners.