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Author Topic:   New theory about evolution between creationism and evolution.
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 9 of 433 (601941)
01-25-2011 5:05 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by zi ko
01-20-2011 11:08 AM


So I have to insist on it: Before any gradual changes in species under evolution, means that there are environmental changes that push organism to change. But of course this fact proposes that organism is knowing, feeling, understanding those changes first, before any mechanism towards changing is geared off.
I read your post and highlighted this sentence as the bit that was way wrong before looking further down the thread and seeing that Parasomnium had picked out exactly the same sentence.
That's the bit that's most obviously wrong. And it's so wrong that my best advice to you is to get a book on the theory of evolution and start again from the beginning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by zi ko, posted 01-20-2011 11:08 AM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Parasomnium, posted 01-25-2011 5:16 AM Dr Adequate has not replied
 Message 17 by zi ko, posted 01-25-2011 2:32 PM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 134 by zi ko, posted 06-19-2011 5:26 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 18 of 433 (602007)
01-25-2011 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by zi ko
01-25-2011 2:32 PM


Which seems a very sensible admission.
So what's your point?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by zi ko, posted 01-25-2011 2:32 PM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by zi ko, posted 01-25-2011 3:36 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 349 of 433 (645529)
12-27-2011 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by foreveryoung
12-26-2011 7:54 PM


Re: New here
What you claim as ridiculous are the "sunday school" versions of creationism and the flood that some YEC propose. It is these cartoon versions of creationism that are so easy to ridicule, and it is for that reason that you claim them as the YEC position.
No, we claim them as YEC positions because YECs do in fact hold those positions.
And innumerable YECs have the same complaint as you do --- we shouldn't be arguing with all the other YECs, who are dolts, we should be arguing with the real creationism, as purveyed by them. How dishonest we are to be debunking Henry Morris when we should be debunking Duane Gish! And why are we going after soft targets like Duane Gish when we should be tackling the more substantive arguments of Walt Brown? And why are we wasting our time on small-time creationists like Walt Brown? --- are we too scared to face up to the cogent reasoning of Henry Morris?
I am sorry to say that 90 % of creationists do fit the picture or cartoon you guys portray.
Yes.
Your own picture of the Flood, as I understand it, is that the crust collapsed into a hydrosphere lying between the crust and the mantle. How was anyone meant to portray that as the true face of "flood geology"? You're the first and only person I've ever heard it from. And yet you chide us for instead focusing on the "silly, cartoonish" scenarios put forward by (apparently) everyone except you. How could we do otherwise? We'd never heard your version before, and we may never do so again from anyone else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by foreveryoung, posted 12-26-2011 7:54 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 350 of 433 (645535)
12-27-2011 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 341 by foreveryoung
12-27-2011 11:47 AM


Re: New here
So, just what are the requirements for an idea to be a valid alternative?
Some sort of evidence for it, rather than "I believe it on faith".
What do I know personally? I wasn't there 200,000 years ago or 4.56 billion years ago either, neither were you. You don't know anything about what happened personally and neither do I.
That would be where the need for evidence comes in.
If one part of the bible is a fairy tale, then there is no reason to believe all of it isn't a fairy tale.
Also, one mistake in Newton's Principia would mean that you shouldn't believe in gravity.
But even if your reasoning was correct on that point, that wouldn't supply you with a reason to believe the whole Bible. It would supply you with a motive to do so, perhaps, but that's hardly the same thing.
Until someone can show me why any of the claims of the bible are impossible ...
Well of course they're impossible, that's the whole point of making the claims. Walking on water is impossible, raising the dead is impossible. Donkeys can't talk, you can't part the Red Sea by waving a stick at it, humans don't undergo parthenogenesis. You can't turn water into wine, no plague can single out the firstborn, sticks don't turn into snakes ...
If instead the Bible was a bunch of stories that went like this:
And lo, the prophet Jethriel did go forth to buy a hat, and behold, he put it on his head, that he might try it on, and verily it was too tight. And so it came to pass that he tried on a larger hat, and behold, it fitted him full well. And so paid he the shopkeeper, even he who sold the hats, yea, he paid him for the hat in the hatshop that is called Beth-Horeb, and lo, he received change therewith ...
... then it would not have become the basis of a major religion. Its whole appeal is that it contains stories about things that are completely impossible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by foreveryoung, posted 12-27-2011 11:47 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 352 of 433 (647267)
01-08-2012 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 351 by foreveryoung
01-08-2012 8:44 PM


Re: Confused here
Obviously, really really incredibly obviously, mind-numbingly, ball-shatteringly obviously, Coyote meant that most YECs wouldn't agree with you that the Earth was "no younger than 150,000 years". What is it with creationists and really really obvious things?
I should be interested, by the way, to know how you came up with that 150,000 year figure.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by foreveryoung, posted 01-08-2012 8:44 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
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