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Author Topic:   New theory about evolution between creationism and evolution.
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2697 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 31 of 433 (602095)
01-26-2011 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Larni
01-26-2011 5:35 AM


Re: Mechanism?
Hi, Larni.
Larni writes:
In fact 'knowing' would do the exact opposite. If you can out think the problem you don't have as big a selective force for physical evolution.
And the opposite is also true: if you have successful physical adaptations, you don't have as big a selective force to evolve the ability to think through the problem.

-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Larni, posted 01-26-2011 5:35 AM Larni has not replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2697 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 32 of 433 (602097)
01-26-2011 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by zi ko
01-26-2011 12:35 AM


Re: Check your premise
Hi, Zi Ko.
zi ko writes:
Empathy! it is the key word to this remark. Mother antilopewill feel this need. Next offspring will have to be faster.
Given this, we would predict that younger siblings will be fitter than their older siblings, because empathy will allow the mother to subconsciously improve her later offspring in relation to her earlier offspring.
I'm quite certain that this prediction will fail.

-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by zi ko, posted 01-26-2011 12:35 AM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Taq, posted 01-26-2011 11:18 AM Blue Jay has seen this message but not replied
 Message 40 by zi ko, posted 01-26-2011 1:52 PM Blue Jay has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 33 of 433 (602103)
01-26-2011 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Blue Jay
01-26-2011 10:09 AM


Re: Check your premise
Given this, we would predict that younger siblings will be fitter than their older siblings, because empathy will allow the mother to subconsciously improve her later offspring in relation to her earlier offspring.
I'm quite certain that this prediction will fail.
And it does fail. The rate of Down Syndrome and other chromosomal irregularities increase with the age of the parent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Blue Jay, posted 01-26-2011 10:09 AM Blue Jay has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 34 of 433 (602104)
01-26-2011 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by zi ko
01-25-2011 1:31 PM


Re: Check your premise
Surely yoy don't expect me to answer right now all the questions we are faced by my theory.
Your theory should at least be able to explain the facts we do have and be able to make different predictions than that made by the current theory of evolution. For example, your theory should be able to explain why chimps and humans differ in some genes more than others, and be able to do so better than the current theory. So what should we see when comparing the human and chimps genomes, and what predictions does your theory make that the current theory does not?
On top of that, you have two classic experiments to deal with. These experiments are:
1. Luria-Delbruck Fluctuation Experiment: In this experiment the authors discovered that the mutations needed for bacteriophage resistance occur in the absence of bacteriophage. Mutations leading to bacteriophage resistance were not a response to the death of their fellow bacteria as your theory would suggest.
2. Lederbergs' Plate Replica Experiment: This experiment used a different methodology to demonstrate the very same thing that was demonstrated in the Luria-Delbruck fluctuation experiment. They found that mutations conferring antibiotic resistance occur in the absence of antibiotic, not as a response to the presence of antibiotics.
I would be more than happy to discuss the particulars of these experiments if you are unclear as to how they demonstrate that mutations are random with respect to fitness.
On top of that, we observe that harmful mutations do indeed occur. According to your theory, what is the purpose of dwarfism (i.e. achondroplasia) or hemophilia? We know that these phenotypes can and do occur through spontaneous mutations, and we even know the genes that they occur in. So what is the nervous system trying to adapt to in these cases? You also need to explain why neutral mutations occur, mutations that produce no change in any organs or phenotypes.
The problem I see with your theory is that it doesn't explain the facts we do have. That is a big problem for any theory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by zi ko, posted 01-25-2011 1:31 PM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by zi ko, posted 01-26-2011 1:29 PM Taq has replied
 Message 355 by zi ko, posted 03-07-2012 11:26 PM Taq has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3619 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 35 of 433 (602123)
01-26-2011 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Parasomnium
01-26-2011 3:12 AM


Re: Check your premise
Thank you for help.I am not well used to PC's.
About EMPATHY and turtles:mother turtle has implanted this instinct to egg's DNA gradually thousand or million years ago.
I looked at the link.My only possible answer is: maybe all these spescies have their own communicating system.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Parasomnium, posted 01-26-2011 3:12 AM Parasomnium has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-26-2011 1:27 PM zi ko has replied
 Message 45 by Parasomnium, posted 01-26-2011 6:34 PM zi ko has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 433 (602128)
01-26-2011 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by zi ko
01-26-2011 1:13 PM


Re: Check your premise
My only possible answer is: maybe all these spescies have their own communicating system.
Or maybe you're wrong You ever consider that as a possible answer?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by zi ko, posted 01-26-2011 1:13 PM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by zi ko, posted 01-26-2011 1:42 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3619 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 37 of 433 (602129)
01-26-2011 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Taq
01-26-2011 11:29 AM


Re: Check your premise
I think i am misunderstood. My theory does not preclude randomness in mutations.Neural system mostly gives general directions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Taq, posted 01-26-2011 11:29 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Taq, posted 01-26-2011 3:55 PM zi ko has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3619 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 38 of 433 (602131)
01-26-2011 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by New Cat's Eye
01-26-2011 1:27 PM


Re: Check your premise
Catholic Scientist writes:
My only possible answer is: maybe all these spescies have their own communicating system.
Or maybe you're wrong You ever consider that as a possible answer?
' Of I may be wrong. But we all have to try to find logical answers. Somebody may find abetter one later."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-26-2011 1:27 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-26-2011 1:49 PM zi ko has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 433 (602133)
01-26-2011 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by zi ko
01-26-2011 1:42 PM


Catholic Scientist writes:
My only possible answer is: maybe all these spescies have their own communicating system.
Or maybe you're wrong You ever consider that as a possible answer?
' Of I may be wrong. But we all have to try to find logical answers. Somebody may find abetter one later."
You posit that evolution employs some kind of communication between parent and offspring while totally failing to consider that the majority of species have no means of this communication.
The logical response to this is not "well maybe they do have the communications". The logical response is "oh yeah, it looks like I was wrong".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by zi ko, posted 01-26-2011 1:42 PM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by zi ko, posted 01-26-2011 2:12 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3619 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 40 of 433 (602135)
01-26-2011 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Blue Jay
01-26-2011 10:09 AM


Re: Check your premise
Bluejay writes:
Hi, Zi Ko.
zi ko writes:
Empathy! it is the key word to this remark. Mother antilopewill feel this need. Next offspring will have to be faster.
Given this, we would predict that younger siblings will be fitter than their older siblings, because empathy will allow the mother to subconsciously improve her later offspring in relation to her earlier offspring.
I'm quite certain that this prediction will fail.
I am surprised! I mean hundreds or thousands generations later.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Blue Jay, posted 01-26-2011 10:09 AM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Blue Jay, posted 01-26-2011 3:25 PM zi ko has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3619 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 41 of 433 (602137)
01-26-2011 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by New Cat's Eye
01-26-2011 1:49 PM


Catholic Scientist writes:
Catholic Scientist writes:
My only possible answer is: maybe all these spescies have their own communicating system.
Or maybe you're wrong You ever consider that as a possible answer?
' Of I may be wrong. But we all have to try to find logical answers. Somebody may find abetter one later."
You posit that evolution employs some kind of communication between parent and offspring while totally failing to consider that the majority of species have no means of this communication.
My answer was hypothetical. Would you like me to say that God's Will is the link between these spescies? Or there is no any communication at all and blind chance is the origin to their creation and evolution?
The logical response to this is not "well maybe they do have the communications". The logical response is "oh yeah, it looks like I was wrong".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-26-2011 1:49 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-26-2011 4:59 PM zi ko has replied
 Message 49 by zi ko, posted 01-27-2011 1:35 AM zi ko has seen this message but not replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2697 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 42 of 433 (602150)
01-26-2011 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by zi ko
01-26-2011 1:52 PM


Re: Check your premise
Hi, Zi Ko.
zi ko writes:
Mother antilopewill feel this need. Next offspring will have to be faster.
Bluejay writes:
Given this, we would predict that younger siblings will be fitter than their older siblings...
I mean hundreds or thousands generations later.
我有一點困惑。
The mother will feel the need for faster offspring, and this feeling will translate through the rest of her progeny until, hundreds or thousands of generations later, it makes the next offspring faster?
What is your mechanism for the inheritance of these empathic states? How does what the mother feels upon seeing her offspring killed translate into evolution many generations later?

-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by zi ko, posted 01-26-2011 1:52 PM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by zi ko, posted 01-27-2011 12:09 AM Blue Jay has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 43 of 433 (602163)
01-26-2011 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by zi ko
01-26-2011 1:29 PM


Re: Check your premise
Neural system mostly gives general directions.
What are these general directions, how are they communicated, and what are they communicated to?
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by zi ko, posted 01-26-2011 1:29 PM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by zi ko, posted 01-27-2011 12:20 AM Taq has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 433 (602187)
01-26-2011 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by zi ko
01-26-2011 2:12 PM


My answer was hypothetical. Would you like me to say that God's Will is the link between these spescies?
I would like you to say what you mean and mean what you say.
Why hide God's Will behind esoteric language?
Or there is no any communication at all and blind chance is the origin to their creation and evolution?
Bzzzt. Common creationist misunderstanding of evolution....
"Blind chance"
The chance aspect of mutation is only part of the theory, the other part is the selection process that makes the whole thing no longer "blind".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by zi ko, posted 01-26-2011 2:12 PM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by zi ko, posted 01-27-2011 1:52 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 45 of 433 (602204)
01-26-2011 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by zi ko
01-26-2011 1:13 PM


Re: Check your premise
zi ko writes:
About EMPATHY and turtles:mother turtle has implanted this instinct to egg's DNA gradually thousand or million years ago.
But how did she know that this is what she needed to communicate? She was never there to watch her offspring make the dangerous trip from the nest to the water, remember?
I looked at the link.My only possible answer is: maybe all these spescies have their own communicating system.
Maybe the name "neurogenic" theory is a bit of a misnomer then?

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by zi ko, posted 01-26-2011 1:13 PM zi ko has seen this message but not replied

  
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