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Author Topic:   How Creationism Explains Hominid Fossil Skulls (FINAL STATEMENTS ONLY)
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 121 of 137 (601929)
01-25-2011 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by arachnophilia
01-24-2011 11:08 PM


Re: documentary hypothesis and belief
Hi arach,
arachnophilia writes:
and this is precisely the problem. that's not what the verse means.
Does Biblical Hebrew have tenses's? No
Are all verbs in Biblical Hebrew either perfect or imperfect? Yes
Does perfect indicate the action is complete? Yes
Does imperfect indicate the action is ongoing? Yes
Is there one verb in Genesis 1:1? Yes
Is that verb Qal perfect 3rd masculine singular? Yes
Does that verb preceed the subject of the verb in the Hebrew text? Yes
Does that verb mean shape, fashion, create? Yes
Is God always the subject of this verb? Yes
If you disagree with any of the answers please present your refutation.
Conclusion:
The verb and its subject in Genesis 1:1 translates:
created God but in English would read better God created.
God is the subject of the verb of completed action.
So the direct objects of the verse (Heaven and Earth) existed as a completed action of God.
Do you believe water began to exist before the Heavens and the Earth?
God Bless,
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by arachnophilia, posted 01-24-2011 11:08 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Coyote, posted 01-25-2011 9:38 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 126 by arachnophilia, posted 01-25-2011 10:22 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 123 of 137 (602014)
01-25-2011 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Coyote
01-25-2011 9:38 AM


Re: Fossils, remember?
Hi Coyote,
Coyote writes:
What does any of that have to do with fossils?
From a Biblical point of view everything.
If the Bible tell us that the Heavens and the Earth is only 6 to 10 thousand years old it contradicts science.
If as I have put forth the Bible tell us that the Heaven and the Earth was created in the beginning with a period of light that lasted an unspecified period prior to Genesis 1:2 and ended with the darkness found there, then there is no contradiction of science by the Bible.
The history of the day God created the Heaven and the Earth is given in Genesis 2:4-4:24. In that history mankind was formed from the dust of the ground as was all other creatures.
According to the Bible text there was at least one extinction event that occured prior to Genesis 1:2 and depending on how long that period of darkness had lasted would determine the extent of that extinction.
Could there have been more events such as that extinction? Sure there could have been many. God is eternal so we have eternity past which had lasted from the beginning until God declared the light period which had ended with the dark period of Genesis 1:2 day one which our translators translated the first day. God's declaration of day one is for the benefit of modern mankind so we can regulate our lives.
The fossils that you and others dig up and examine are of creatures who have lived in the past. You and others try to put dates on when they existed. That date makes no difference to me or the Bible as you are dating existence.
The fossils that you line up and tell me they have simularaties and therefore are descended from a common ancestor is your opinion. That makes sense to you as it fits your worldview.
They could have been created by a creator and lived at different times and became extinct in any extinction event that science tells us has taken place, or died of natural causes.
The history of the creating of mankind and creatures begins in Genesis 2:7 and does not end until 6 to 10 thousand years ago which is recorded in Genesis 2:2.
The Hebrew word translated rested that many make a fuss over being the sabbath means cease, desist, and then rest. So God ceased His creating at that time and has not created since.
So any fossil that you or anyone could find, could have been created between the beginning and Genesis 2:2.
We have trillions of gallon of oil in the earth much natural gas and coal. It took trillions upon trillions of tons of mass to form these fuels. Many of them are buried miles deep in the earth. So the mass had to exist then be covered by material that formed rock miles thick.
Where did all that material come from?
The Bible allows plenty of time for such a process to take place.
So what is said in the text has everything to do with fossils.
God Bless,
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Coyote, posted 01-25-2011 9:38 AM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Coyote, posted 01-25-2011 8:51 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 125 by Adminnemooseus, posted 01-25-2011 10:15 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 128 of 137 (602136)
01-26-2011 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Adminnemooseus
01-25-2011 10:15 PM


Re: Fossils, remember?
Hi Adminnemooseus,
Adminnemooseus writes:
I agree with Coyote. At best, to show that we are wrong, you are going to need to make much more explicit what that alleged connection is.
Throughout the thread everyone is arguing because things look similar they had to have a common ancestor. The skulls presented is the example set forth.
My argument is that they do not have to have a common ancestor. But for that to be possible then the Bible has to be able to account for an existence of more than 6,000 years which arachnophilia is arguing, by trying to turn a Biblical Hebrew Qal perfect verb of completed action into a imperfect verb of ongoing action. His problem is the only way that could be accomplished is if the writer had used an Alef prefix on the verb.
If I am not allowed to prove that the Bible has creation taking place in the beginning which was a very long time ago there is no way I can discuss the similarites of the skulls presented is not necessaraly the result of a common ancestor.
This is arachnophilia's intention.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Adminnemooseus, posted 01-25-2011 10:15 PM Adminnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by arachnophilia, posted 01-26-2011 10:49 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 134 of 137 (602416)
01-28-2011 10:19 AM


Fossils
Fossils are the preserved remains of creatures that have existed in the past.
Many of those preserved creatures looks similar.
But that is what designers do. They improve on earlier designs to reach the present product.
So where do I as a person that believes in creation believe the fossils came from? Well there has been an eternity past in which the earth existed. In that eternal past God was creating as he did not stop creating until 6,000 years ago. That accounts for any fossil you can find that dates until the present as they were created after their own kind.
Now the scientific view can be found Here.
Overview
This early human species had a very large brow ridge, a larger braincase and flatter face than older early human species. It was first early human species to live in colder climates, their short, wide bodies were a likely adaptation to conserving heat. It lived at the time of the oldest definite control of fire and use of wooden spears, and it was the first early human species to routinely hunt large animals. This early human also broke new ground; it was the first species to build shelterscreating simple dwellings out of wood and rock.
The unknown
We don’t know everything about early humansbut we keep learning more! Paleoanthropologists are constantly in the field, excavating new areas with groundbreaking technology, and continually filling in some of the gaps about our understanding of human evolution.
Below are some of the still unanswered questions about Homo heidelbergensis that may be answered with future discoveries:
1.Did this early human species indeed range in time from 1.3 million to 200,000 years ago, and in geography from Africa to Europe to Asia? Or are there more than one species represented among the fossils that some scientists call H. heidelbergensis (including H. antecessor, H. cepranensis, and H. rhodesiensis)?
2.Many scientists think this species was ancestral to our own, but which species was the ancestor of H. heidelbergensis?
3.Did H. heidelbergensis have any cultural or behavioral adaptations that facilitated it living in colder climates?
4.Did regional groups or populations of H. heidelbergensis exhibit any unique behaviors or anatomical adaptations?
In the overview this is presented as our ancestor.
In the unknowns question 2 there is a mention that many scientist believe this creature is our ancestor.
There is no proof but they have faith.
The only evidence is we look simiar and they controled fire, used wooden spears, and constructed shelters out of wood and stone.
According to that I guess bees would fit well as our human ancestor as they have been building houses out of wood since they began to exist.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Panda, posted 01-28-2011 11:01 AM ICANT has not replied

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