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Author
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Topic: When does killing an animal constitute murder?
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ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Empathy
Straggler writes: You haven't demonstrated any "respect" for any species at all.
Respect was one of the reasons why I didn't wipe out the ant colony or the wasp colony.
Straggler writes: All you have done is deny that there are moral reasons for curbing one's behaviour.
I've done no such thing. I've said that morality isn't the be-all and end-all magic cause of all behaviour that you seem to think it is. I've said that, for example, social pressure is often a larger factor than individual morality.
Straggler writes: And you want to lecture me about morality and empathy?
You seem to have that backwards. Edited by ringo, : Fixed quote.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 329 by Straggler, posted 01-20-2011 3:24 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 332 of 352 (601573)
01-21-2011 2:52 PM
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Reply to: Message 331 by Straggler
01-21-2011 12:52 PM
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Re: Empathy
Straggler writes: If this claim were true you would indisputably possess a dangerous lack of personal empathy for your fellow man and be warranting of the term psychopath.
From your own source:
quote:
However, there remained no international agreement on the diagnosis of psychopathy. One author referred to it in 1987 as an "infinitely elastic, catch-all category".[83] In 1988, Blackburn wrote in the British Journal of Psychiatry that the concept as commonly used in psychiatry is little more than a moral judgement masquerading as a clinical diagnosis, and argued that it should be scrapped.
Straggler writes: And you have stated that the predominant reasons you don't personally go round killing people are because you have "never had an opportunity to kill a human being and get away with it" and that the "social implications to swatting humans" have "consequences". So tell me - Where is the empathy or respect in that?
It's the same empathy and respect that I have for the ant colony and the wasp colony.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 331 by Straggler, posted 01-21-2011 12:52 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Empathy
Straggler writes: So tell me - What does it fell like to be an ant?
It's like being a part of one big happy family. (I have forty-nine first cousins, so I have an inkling.) When George gets stepped on, everybody notices when he doesn't come home.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 333 by Straggler, posted 01-21-2011 2:56 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Empathy
Straggler writes: Equal rights for bacteria?
I remember seeing a movie or TV show years ago in which a character said, "I thought smallpox had been extinct for years." My first thought was that making smallpox extinct didn't seem appropriate. I've also seen "public service" announcements for a Purple Loosestrife Eradication Project. I can see advising people not to put a highly-aggressive plant in their gardens but "eradicating" it seems like going a bridge too far. It's funny how we can get all up in arms about saving some obscure species in the Brazilian rain forest, yet we don't bat an eye at trying to destroy other "inconvenient" species.
Straggler writes: If you genuinely see no empathy based reason to accord greater moral consideration to humans....
I don't think genuine empathy can be discriminatory like that. I think singling out humans is only one step away from singling out white humans or German white humans. "They came for the ants and I wasn't an ant, so I didn't speak up."
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 335 by Straggler, posted 01-24-2011 1:09 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 338 of 352 (601964)
01-25-2011 10:44 AM
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Reply to: Message 337 by Straggler
01-25-2011 7:54 AM
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Re: Equal Rights for Bacteria?
Straggler writes: I very specifically didn’t single out humans.
You very specifically have been throughout the thread putting humans on a pedestal above other species. You put apes on the step below us and cows on the step below that. You clearly put fruit flies and cockroaches close to the bottom of the "value" ladder. So, if sentience is your criterion, why not gradate humans by degree of sentience too? That's what they used to do: "Black people don't mind having their children taken away from them because they don't have the same feelings as white people." Discrimination has to start somewhere. Usually, it starts with making unnecessary distinctions between groups.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 337 by Straggler, posted 01-25-2011 7:54 AM | | Straggler has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 340 of 352 (601995)
01-25-2011 1:34 PM
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Reply to: Message 339 by Straggler
01-25-2011 11:34 AM
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Re: Equal Rights for Bacteria?
Straggler writes: The 'Great Bacterium Project'. Equal rights for bacteria. Would you support such a project?
As I've been saying all along, it depends on the individual situation. There is no blanket easy answer. For example, I do not support the wholesale eradication of intestinal bacteria.
Straggler writes: Without such distinctions the only thing stopping you from randomly wiping out colonies of innocent people is the social and legal implications of doing so.
On the contrary, when colonies of people are wiped out (by other people) it is usually because of arbitrary distinctions such as, "You're a Hutu and I'm a Tutsi." Predetermined moral considerations are only a small step above moral considerations prescribed by a flying spook.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 339 by Straggler, posted 01-25-2011 11:34 AM | | Straggler has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Individual Situations - YES YES YES
Straggler writes: Without any consistent means of distinction your moral decisions are simply made on a whim.
On the contrary, it's the consistent rulebooks that are based on whims like eye colour. I might choose blue eyes in one situation and brown eyes in another.
Straggler writes: Simply saying "it's individual" and applying the vacuity that is "do no harm" tells us nothing about how you personally come to moral conclusions in this context. Which is supposed to be what this thread is about.
If the thread was about the most efficient way to kill WASPs, my answer would still be that I prefer not to kill them at all.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 341 by Straggler, posted 01-25-2011 2:01 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Individual Situations - YES YES YES
Straggler writes: The personal moral position I have put forward in this thread is both honest and consistent.
So was Charles Manson's.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 343 by Straggler, posted 01-26-2011 2:58 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Individual Situations - YES YES YES
Straggler writes: And your point is what?
That consistency isn't always a good thing.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 345 by Straggler, posted 01-26-2011 3:23 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 348 of 352 (602456)
01-28-2011 1:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 347 by Straggler
01-28-2011 12:30 PM
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Re: Individual Situations - YES YES YES
Do you have any empathy for the strawmen that you're beating the stuffing out of?
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 347 by Straggler, posted 01-28-2011 12:30 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 350 of 352 (602609)
01-29-2011 11:37 AM
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Reply to: Message 349 by Straggler
01-29-2011 11:18 AM
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Re: Debate Hole
Straggler writes: If you have any basis for your moral reasoning beyond arbitrary random whim regarding things like eye colour or toenail length - We have yet to see it in this thread.
We? Nobody's complaining but you.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 349 by Straggler, posted 01-29-2011 11:18 AM | | Straggler has replied |
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