Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?

Well, Coyote, this thread is about flood evidence relative to population and whether the flood hypothesis trumps the million man hypothesis.Imo, even if you discount yours, you can chalk up one for the young flood man and zero for your old evolved man.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Why should anybody be required to refute your bullshit Buz? You have yet to substantiate this "final position" of yours.How deep was the original crossing site? How much rock was eroded? What mass flow rate of water would be required to accomplish this erosion? Show your work. What evidence do you have to suggest that the "crossing site" was a sandbar? The topic has nothing to with multi-verses or the big bang Buz.

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It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

no it is not.

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It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

Buz, the audience can see the images and the evidence, except of course yours. Edited by jar, : Add images

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Nice try.Beginning an argument with a ridiculous hypothetical, such as "If pigs could fly" and then proceeding to build detail upon detail on that ridiculous hypothetical is a very flawed way of debating an issue. It fails from the very beginning.Likewise your arguments beginning with "flood evidence" also fail because, as a number of us have pointed out to you, Noah's flood ca. 4,350 years ago never happened. The evidence on that point is conclusive.Because the biblical flood never happened, it makes no sense to base population estimates on that mythical flood.But that's OK: the population estimates presented here that are based on the mythical flood fail anyway. Nonsense. You're peddlin' your catechism here, not providing any evidence that can be supported by scientific studies.

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

While I am not Coyote, I am curious as to what timeline you are referring to. According to your calculations, when was this global flood, was it the commonly accepted date of 2350 BCE? Given that, when was the Akkadian Empire? The Indus Valley civilization? The Longshan culture in China? Are the pyramids and monuments all pre-flood, post-flood or a mix? How about others? Is it OK that we assume there were actual people who built these cities instead of aliens or devils in order to trick historians and archeologists?Does the flood only apply to "white" people (sorry, had to ask)? (yeah I know, serious snark - but if flood in all other religions, show me the quote and the time)Please provide some timeline as to what is the past. If you don't know, please ask your masters to provide a timeline. Please do something to support your position in regard to the timescale, even if it is only your arbitrary decision as to such a timeline.If you can't give us the time, you can't give us the truth.Edited by anglagard, : snark, explained (Buz is tough enough to take it IMO)

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The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman RushdieThis rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Like your science, we take the knowns and go from there. The more knowns, the more supported the unknown probabilities become.

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Dr Jones writes:

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The crossing site was a sand bar and would have eroded

What evidence do you have to suggest that the "crossing site" was a sandbar?

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We have the evidence that Nuweiba is a delta from the wadi canyon. Deltas are formed by significant water flows. Nuweiba would be indicative of a significant flow from the canyon at some time in the past; perhaps evidence of the flood.

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We know that above and below Nuweiba indicates that at some time in the past Nuweiba was likely similar to above and below it, due to the wadi and canyon.

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Oh, I think I left some of it where you people left your corroborative evidence for multi-verses and BB theory

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The topic has nothing to with multi-verses or the big bang Buz.

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It's a lot about who's evidence qualifies. That's how I applied my comment in response to Jar's jab.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Ah yes, the "you do it too" arguement, it's nice to see you attempt to debate at the kindergarten level. What knowns do you have? do you know how deep the alleged "crossing site" was? Do you know what the mass flow rate of the alleged tsunami was? do you have rough estimates? show your work.

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It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

By that count, imo, the evolutionist time line of the million yr man is not truth. Show me the evidence that it took hundreds of thousands of years for the scanty early population to double and more hundreds of thousands to double again, etc.Surely, one can assume the flood calculation to be more accurate than the alternative, given the Biblical implications which I've cited.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

The Biblical account is very clear that it was Pharaoh who was entrapped. He was fooled into thinking that the Israelites were lost/confused.Here it is again, in case you want to actually address what the Bible really says:

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Exo 14:1-4 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they turn and encamp before Pihahiroth, between Migdol and the sea, over against Baalzephon: before it shall ye encamp by the sea. For Pharaoh will say of the children of Israel, They are entangled in the land, the wilderness hath shut them in. And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honoured upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the LORD. And they did so.

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Clearly, the Israelites were only pretending to be lost. And Nuweiba doesn't meet the geographic requirement. It's in the wrong place. It's much too far away.Edited by ringo, : Speling.

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"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

Find it yourself. You don't accept anything we post to you anyway.Also, science is not seeking "truth," or "Truth," or "TRUTH," or even "TRVTH." We'll leave that to the "TRVE" believers. We are just out for the best explanation for the facts--and that explanation has to account for all relevant facts, be contradicted by no significant facts, and to make successful predictions. That explanation is called a "theory." No, one cannot assume that. You might, but you have shown yourself to be impervious to fact and logic when it contradicts your particular beliefs. It has been an amazing display of religious fervor that you have given us.Likewise, you have given us no cause to take your opinion on anything as scientifically accurate.

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Coyote, how about refuting the corroborative evidence that I have cited rather than incessantly demanding more? If you can't empirically falsify what I have given, you can't truthfully say that I've supplied no supportive evidence for the Exodus.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Your evidence doesn't corroborate anything because it's in the wrong place. Why don't you address that issue?

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"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

Exodus?I've absolutely no interest in the exodus. I am refuting the idea of a global flood ca. 4,350 years ago. I am refuting that idea from my own research, as many other archaeologists have also done.I have posted this evidence numerous times, but you just ignore it as if I hadn't posted at all.Let's review one refutation: the biblical scholars place the global flood ca. 4,350 years ago. I have mtDNA evidence from 5300 years ago which matches more recent skeletal data as well as living individuals in the same area. There is no way that scenario could happen with a global flood. You can equivocate all you want, but your "what ifs" don't make the evidence go away, except in your own mind.I have seen others refute the exodus myth on this thread, but you won't accept that evidence either.Can you tell me why you refuse to accept the evidence of the natural world? How can you live in such a fantasy world? I really can't understand that at all.On second thought, I don't want to know. Good night.

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Well I can see that Jar's summary is rather more accurate than your objections.If you claimed that the petrogylphs are even mostly cattle you'd be lying. There's simply no reason (other than your desperation to find "evidence") to think that they have any link with the Exodus story.It doesn't hurt that Jar's rock formations aren't near yours - and they shouldn't be near. It's you job to show that the rock formation you choose is the one in the story (and the story doesn't even mention the rock splitting, so good luck there).

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Jar, you know full well that I cited evidence in the scripture to the contrary of your argument

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You cited a dubious INTERPRETATION of scripture - when you weren't outright misrepresenting it. The most straightforward interpretation is that the Egyptians thought that the Israelites were trapped in Egypt because they did not dare attempt to cross the wilderness. That doesn't support your case at all.

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The crossing site was a sand bar and would have eroded. I also pointed out that a relatively great area would have been dried up for the crossing. Plus, it is not known how far back the wall would have been and whether both North and South were released simultaneously or timed so as to do the most damage to the army.

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Of course this is ALL supposition with no evidence whatsoever. And it is your FINAL position because your initial position was completely false.

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And, of course, what you're not reminding the folks is that I pointed out that the Jews were not designated in that particular context. To my knowledge they are not designated anywhere as being favored by Allah, their god or by Jehovah the Biblical god.

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OK, we can tell people that you were desperate to cling to your lie. The fact is that Muslims have no objection to the Exodus story. Those Muslims that hate Jews hate the MODERN Jews - just as many Christians have done. You don't see Christian anti-semites trying to disprove the Exodus. Why should Muslim ant-semites be any different ?

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Again, there was a high blacked top mountain in the right order of corroborated row of ducks

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And by the actual evidence it appears to be geological, not from burning as in the story.

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No, of course not. Just a marine scientist's techy underwater photographs and videos of wheel and axle shaped corral crusted forms, again at the right place in the row of ducks.

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Mainly Ron Wyatt's photographs to tell the truth. So just photographs from a fraud and his devout followers - with no competence in any sort of archaeology or Egyptology between them. And no evidence that would be useful for identifying the wheels as coming from chariots or any evidence that would provide a useful date at all - if there even where wheels within the coral. (More likely they are much more recent with considerable metal content - according to the evidence).

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For the most part, here at EvC, particularly you, my skeptical counterparts, yes. I believe that to be the case.

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So you don't think the fact that you have no good evidence - while there IS good evidence against the Exodus story as it appears in the Bible is relevant ? This is just sour grapes, and an example of genuine mean-mindedness.