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Author | Topic: Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Coyote writes: If the flood happened, the rest of the account in Genesis would have been true, including the alleged long life of humans being hundreds of years. Even by the time of the Exodus, Moses was 120 and died healthy, able to walk to the heights of the mountain. Contrarily, if the flood never happened the rest of the account in Genesis could have been false. I have presented you with several lines of evidence showing that the flood never happened, as have other members of this board. QED. Well, Coyote, this thread is about flood evidence relative to population and whether the flood hypothesis trumps the million man hypothesis. Imo, even if you discount yours, you can chalk up one for the young flood man and zero for your old evolved man. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2338 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 8.0
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And who, pray tell, effectively refuted my final position?
Why should anybody be required to refute your bullshit Buz? You have yet to substantiate this "final position" of yours. How deep was the original crossing site? How much rock was eroded? What mass flow rate of water would be required to accomplish this erosion? Show your work.
The crossing site was a sand bar and would have eroded
What evidence do you have to suggest that the "crossing site" was a sandbar?
Oh, I think I left some of it where you people left your corroborative evidence for multi-verses and BB theory
The topic has nothing to with multi-verses or the big bang Buz. It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds soon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2338 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 8.0
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Well, Coyote, this thread is about flood evidence relative to population and whether the flood hypothesis trumps the million man hypothesis.
no it is not. It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds soon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
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jar Member (Idle past 91 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Buz, the audience can see the images and the evidence, except of course yours.
Edited by jar, : Add images Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2358 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Well, Coyote, this thread is about flood evidence relative to population and whether the flood hypothesis trumps the million man hypothesis. Nice try. Beginning an argument with a ridiculous hypothetical, such as "If pigs could fly" and then proceeding to build detail upon detail on that ridiculous hypothetical is a very flawed way of debating an issue. It fails from the very beginning. Likewise your arguments beginning with "flood evidence" also fail because, as a number of us have pointed out to you, Noah's flood ca. 4,350 years ago never happened. The evidence on that point is conclusive. Because the biblical flood never happened, it makes no sense to base population estimates on that mythical flood. But that's OK: the population estimates presented here that are based on the mythical flood fail anyway.
Imo, even if you discount yours, you can chalk up one for the young flood man and zero for your old evolved man. Nonsense. You're peddlin' your catechism here, not providing any evidence that can be supported by scientific studies. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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anglagard Member (Idle past 1089 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined:
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Buzsaw writes: Well, Coyote, this thread is about flood evidence relative to population and whether the flood hypothesis trumps the million man hypothesis. While I am not Coyote, I am curious as to what timeline you are referring to. According to your calculations, when was this global flood, was it the commonly accepted date of 2350 BCE? Given that, when was the Akkadian Empire? The Indus Valley civilization? The Longshan culture in China? Are the pyramids and monuments all pre-flood, post-flood or a mix? How about others? Is it OK that we assume there were actual people who built these cities instead of aliens or devils in order to trick historians and archeologists? Does the flood only apply to "white" people (sorry, had to ask)? (yeah I know, serious snark - but if flood in all other religions, show me the quote and the time) Please provide some timeline as to what is the past. If you don't know, please ask your masters to provide a timeline. Please do something to support your position in regard to the timescale, even if it is only your arbitrary decision as to such a timeline. If you can't give us the time, you can't give us the truth. Edited by anglagard, : snark, explained (Buz is tough enough to take it IMO) The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes. Salman Rushdie This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
DrJones writes: And who, pray tell, effectively refuted my final position?
Why should anybody be required to refute your bullshit What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Buz? You have yet to substantiate this "final position" of yours. How deep was the original crossing site? How much rock was eroded? What mass flow rate of water would be required to accomplish this erosion? Show your work. Like your science, we take the knowns and go from there. The more knowns, the more supported the unknown probabilities become.
Dr Jones writes: The crossing site was a sand bar and would have eroded
What evidence do you have to suggest that the "crossing site" was a sandbar? We have the evidence that Nuweiba is a delta from the wadi canyon. Deltas are formed by significant water flows. Nuweiba would be indicative of a significant flow from the canyon at some time in the past; perhaps evidence of the flood. We know that above and below Nuweiba indicates that at some time in the past Nuweiba was likely similar to above and below it, due to the wadi and canyon.
Oh, I think I left some of it where you people left your corroborative evidence for multi-verses and BB theory The topic has nothing to with multi-verses or the big bang Buz. It's a lot about who's evidence qualifies. That's how I applied my comment in response to Jar's jab. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2338 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 8.0
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What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Ah yes, the "you do it too" arguement, it's nice to see you attempt to debate at the kindergarten level.
Like your science, we take the knowns and go from there.
What knowns do you have? do you know how deep the alleged "crossing site" was? Do you know what the mass flow rate of the alleged tsunami was? do you have rough estimates? show your work. It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds soon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
anglagard writes: If you can't give us the time, you can't give us the truth. By that count, imo, the evolutionist time line of the million yr man is not truth. Show me the evidence that it took hundreds of thousands of years for the scanty early population to double and more hundreds of thousands to double again, etc. Surely, one can assume the flood calculation to be more accurate than the alternative, given the Biblical implications which I've cited. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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ringo Member (Idle past 664 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Buzsaw writes:
The Biblical account is very clear that it was Pharaoh who was entrapped. He was fooled into thinking that the Israelites were lost/confused. Though the context used different wording, it did depict an entrapment. Here it is again, in case you want to actually address what the Bible really says:
quote:Clearly, the Israelites were only pretending to be lost. Buzsaw writes:
And Nuweiba doesn't meet the geographic requirement. It's in the wrong place. It's much too far away. None of the other sites which creationists have cited meet that requirement. Edited by ringo, : Speling. "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2358 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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By that count, imo, the evolutionist time line of the million yr man is not truth. Show me the evidence that it took hundreds of thousands of years for the scanty early population to double and more hundreds of thousands to double again, etc. Find it yourself. You don't accept anything we post to you anyway. Also, science is not seeking "truth," or "Truth," or "TRUTH," or even "TRVTH." We'll leave that to the "TRVE" believers. We are just out for the best explanation for the facts--and that explanation has to account for all relevant facts, be contradicted by no significant facts, and to make successful predictions. That explanation is called a "theory."
Surely, one can assume the flood calculation to be more accurate than the alternative, given the Biblical implications which I've cited. No, one cannot assume that. You might, but you have shown yourself to be impervious to fact and logic when it contradicts your particular beliefs. It has been an amazing display of religious fervor that you have given us. Likewise, you have given us no cause to take your opinion on anything as scientifically accurate. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Coyote writes: By that count, imo, the evolutionist time line of the million yr man is not truth. Show me the evidence that it took hundreds of thousands of years for the scanty early population to double and more hundreds of thousands to double again, etc. Find it yourself. You don't accept anything we post to you anyway. Also, science is not seeking "truth," or "Truth," or "TRUTH," or even "TRVTH." We'll leave that to the "TRVE" believers. We are just out for the best explanation for the facts--and that explanation has to account for all relevant facts, be contradicted by no significant facts, and to make successful predictions. That explanation is called a "theory."
Surely, one can assume the flood calculation to be more accurate than the alternative, given the Biblical implications which I've cited. No, one cannot assume that. You might, but you have shown yourself to be impervious to fact and logic when it contradicts your particular beliefs. It has been an amazing display of religious fervor that you have given us. Likewise, you have given us no cause to take your opinion on anything as scientifically accurate. Coyote, how about refuting the corroborative evidence that I have cited rather than incessantly demanding more? If you can't empirically falsify what I have given, you can't truthfully say that I've supplied no supportive evidence for the Exodus. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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ringo Member (Idle past 664 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
Your evidence doesn't corroborate anything because it's in the wrong place. Why don't you address that issue? Coyote, how about refuting the corroborative evidence that I have cited rather than incessantly demanding more? "I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2358 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Coyote, how about refuting the corroborative evidence that I have cited rather than incessantly demanding more? If you can't empirically falsify what I have given, you can't truthfully say that I've supplied no supportive evidence for the Exodus. Exodus? I've absolutely no interest in the exodus. I am refuting the idea of a global flood ca. 4,350 years ago. I am refuting that idea from my own research, as many other archaeologists have also done. I have posted this evidence numerous times, but you just ignore it as if I hadn't posted at all. Let's review one refutation: the biblical scholars place the global flood ca. 4,350 years ago. I have mtDNA evidence from 5300 years ago which matches more recent skeletal data as well as living individuals in the same area. There is no way that scenario could happen with a global flood. You can equivocate all you want, but your "what ifs" don't make the evidence go away, except in your own mind. I have seen others refute the exodus myth on this thread, but you won't accept that evidence either. Can you tell me why you refuse to accept the evidence of the natural world? How can you live in such a fantasy world? I really can't understand that at all. On second thought, I don't want to know. Good night. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17912 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
Well I can see that Jar's summary is rather more accurate than your objections.
If you claimed that the petrogylphs are even mostly cattle you'd be lying. There's simply no reason (other than your desperation to find "evidence") to think that they have any link with the Exodus story. It doesn't hurt that Jar's rock formations aren't near yours - and they shouldn't be near. It's you job to show that the rock formation you choose is the one in the story (and the story doesn't even mention the rock splitting, so good luck there).
quote: You cited a dubious INTERPRETATION of scripture - when you weren't outright misrepresenting it. The most straightforward interpretation is that the Egyptians thought that the Israelites were trapped in Egypt because they did not dare attempt to cross the wilderness. That doesn't support your case at all.
quote: Of course this is ALL supposition with no evidence whatsoever. And it is your FINAL position because your initial position was completely false.
quote: OK, we can tell people that you were desperate to cling to your lie. The fact is that Muslims have no objection to the Exodus story. Those Muslims that hate Jews hate the MODERN Jews - just as many Christians have done. You don't see Christian anti-semites trying to disprove the Exodus. Why should Muslim ant-semites be any different ?
quote: And by the actual evidence it appears to be geological, not from burning as in the story.
quote: Mainly Ron Wyatt's photographs to tell the truth. So just photographs from a fraud and his devout followers - with no competence in any sort of archaeology or Egyptology between them. And no evidence that would be useful for identifying the wheels as coming from chariots or any evidence that would provide a useful date at all - if there even where wheels within the coral. (More likely they are much more recent with considerable metal content - according to the evidence).
quote: So you don't think the fact that you have no good evidence - while there IS good evidence against the Exodus story as it appears in the Bible is relevant ? This is just sour grapes, and an example of genuine mean-mindedness.
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