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Author Topic:   Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 331 of 657 (603184)
02-03-2011 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 330 by Buzsaw
02-03-2011 8:24 AM


Egypt
Buz, there is no nation of Arabia, never has been. At the time the mythological Exodus happened all of Canaan, the Sinai, both sides of the Gulf of Aqaba were Egyptian territory.
From Wiki.
But that is still irrelevant to calling the area Arabia. Arabia is a geographic term just as Africa would be, not a nationality.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Buzsaw, posted 02-03-2011 8:24 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 332 by Buzsaw, posted 02-03-2011 11:20 AM jar has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 332 of 657 (603205)
02-03-2011 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 331 by jar
02-03-2011 9:21 AM


Re: Territories
jar writes:
Buz, there is no nation of Arabia, never has been. At the time the mythological Exodus happened all of Canaan, the Sinai, both sides of the Gulf of Aqaba were Egyptian territory.
From Wiki.
But that is still irrelevant to calling the area Arabia. Arabia is a geographic term just as Africa would be, not a nationality.
The map does not show that Canaan and Syria etc were Egyptian, just because the colors imply that. They were separate and indigenous Kingdoms from Egypt.
I understand that Arabia was then not a nation. You did not address my question. When did Sinai become a province of Arabia?
All of this carries a relatively small role in the Nuweiba hypothesis, in that there is plenty of other corroborated evidence to support the Nuweiba Exodus event.
Bottom line in all that has been debated in this and other Exodus threads: Nobody can henceforth truthfully allege that Buzsaw has cited no supportive I say supportive evidence for the Biblical Exodus.
That is not to say that all should be expected to acknowledge that supportive evidence.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by jar, posted 02-03-2011 9:21 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by jar, posted 02-03-2011 11:28 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 335 by ringo, posted 02-03-2011 1:04 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 336 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-03-2011 2:08 PM Buzsaw has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 333 of 657 (603208)
02-03-2011 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 332 by Buzsaw
02-03-2011 11:20 AM


Re: Territories
Buzsaw writes:
jar writes:
Buz, there is no nation of Arabia, never has been. At the time the mythological Exodus happened all of Canaan, the Sinai, both sides of the Gulf of Aqaba were Egyptian territory.
From Wiki.
But that is still irrelevant to calling the area Arabia. Arabia is a geographic term just as Africa would be, not a nationality.
The map does not show that Canaan and Syria etc were Egyptian, just because the colors imply that. They were separate and indigenous Kingdoms from Egypt.
I understand that Arabia was then not a nation. You did not address my question. When did Sinai become a province of Arabia?
All of this carries a relatively small role in the Nuweiba hypothesis, in that there is plenty of other corroborated evidence to support the Nuweiba Exodus event.
Bottom line in all that has been debated in this and other Exodus threads: Nobody can henceforth truthfully allege that Buzsaw has cited no supportive I say supportive evidence for the Biblical Exodus.
That is not to say that all should be expected to acknowledge that supportive evidence.
Sinai has NEVER been a province of Arabia. There has never been a nation of Arabia. Sinai has always been a geographic part of Arabia.
And of course we can claim that Buz has never presented any evidence that the Exodus ever happened that has not been soundly refuted.
Edited by jar, : finish last sentence

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by Buzsaw, posted 02-03-2011 11:20 AM Buzsaw has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 334 of 657 (603223)
02-03-2011 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by Buzsaw
02-03-2011 8:24 AM


Re: Possibly Useful Information
quote:
Which begs the question: What evidence do we have as to when Sinai became a province of Arabia? I was not able to find definitive maps in this regard.
There is no such question since nobody is asserting that Sinai ever became a province of Arabia. Rather it was consider a part of the geographical region of Arabia which was not a nation.
However, Wikipedia indicates that the Persian Satrapy of Arabia corresponded to Arabia Petraea according to the link that you have already been provided with.
Achaemenid Arabia corresponded to the lands between Egypt and Mesopotamia, known as Arabia Petraea.
This map shows Sinai as part of Arabia in 500 BC.
This map, showing the Empire as it was in the time of Alexander, fails to give precise boundaries, but it is consistent with all the information we have.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Buzsaw, posted 02-03-2011 8:24 AM Buzsaw has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 335 of 657 (603226)
02-03-2011 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 332 by Buzsaw
02-03-2011 11:20 AM


Buzsaw writes:
Nobody can henceforth truthfully allege that Buzsaw has cited no supportive I say supportive evidence for the Biblical Exodus.
If you want to make that claim, you have to address the rebuttals. So far, all you've done is ignore the sound reasons for rejecting your claims.
Let's try again: Why would the children of Israel travel hundreds of miles out of their way to trap Pharaoh? Why would Moses travel to the far side of Aqaba to escape Egyptian justice? Geographically, Nuweiba makes no sense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by Buzsaw, posted 02-03-2011 11:20 AM Buzsaw has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 336 of 657 (603247)
02-03-2011 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 332 by Buzsaw
02-03-2011 11:20 AM


Bottom line in all that has been debated in this and other Exodus threads: Nobody can henceforth truthfully allege that Buzsaw has cited no supportive I say supportive evidence for the Biblical Exodus.
I don't think so, because you did it wrong. Message 283
Reading the Exodus, interpreting the story, guessing at the location, and then finding a wheel...
The wheel is not supportive evidence that the Exodus happened. Its a post-hoc rationalization of something neat that you found.
If you're not eliminating other possibilities for the wheel then you're not supporting anything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by Buzsaw, posted 02-03-2011 11:20 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 337 by jar, posted 02-03-2011 2:10 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied
 Message 342 by Buzsaw, posted 02-03-2011 7:33 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 337 of 657 (603248)
02-03-2011 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by New Cat's Eye
02-03-2011 2:08 PM


where's the wheel?
Catholic Scientist writes:
Bottom line in all that has been debated in this and other Exodus threads: Nobody can henceforth truthfully allege that Buzsaw has cited no supportive I say supportive evidence for the Biblical Exodus.
I don't think so, because you did it wrong. Message 283
Reading the Exodus, interpreting the story, guessing at the location, and then finding a wheel...
The wheel is not supportive evidence that the Exodus happened. Its a post-hoc rationalization of something neat that you found.
If you're not eliminating other possibilities for the wheel then you're not supporting anything.
If, and it is a really big if, the wheel actually even exists.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-03-2011 2:08 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by Coragyps, posted 02-03-2011 2:23 PM jar has replied
 Message 340 by PaulK, posted 02-03-2011 2:40 PM jar has replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 338 of 657 (603253)
02-03-2011 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 337 by jar
02-03-2011 2:10 PM


Re: where's the wheel?
If, and it is a really big if, the wheel actually even exists.
You doubt the word of a Julliard-trained anaesthisist!!???
[/channeling Kramer]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by jar, posted 02-03-2011 2:10 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 339 by jar, posted 02-03-2011 2:40 PM Coragyps has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 339 of 657 (603261)
02-03-2011 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by Coragyps
02-03-2011 2:23 PM


Re: where's the wheel?
Coragyps writes:
If, and it is a really big if, the wheel actually even exists.
You doubt the word of a Julliard-trained anaesthisist!!???
[/channeling Kramer]
Me doubt someone that has been shown to fake and create data and ignore and suppress any evidence that refutes his assertions and fantasies? Heaven forefend!!!!!!!

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by Coragyps, posted 02-03-2011 2:23 PM Coragyps has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 340 of 657 (603263)
02-03-2011 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 337 by jar
02-03-2011 2:10 PM


Re: where's the wheel?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by jar, posted 02-03-2011 2:10 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 341 by jar, posted 02-03-2011 2:44 PM PaulK has not replied
 Message 344 by Buzsaw, posted 02-03-2011 8:13 PM PaulK has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 341 of 657 (603264)
02-03-2011 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by PaulK
02-03-2011 2:40 PM


Re: where's the wheel?
PaulK writes:
See this thread "Chariot Wheels" In the Red Sea
Ah yes, "THAT" wheel.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by PaulK, posted 02-03-2011 2:40 PM PaulK has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 342 of 657 (603325)
02-03-2011 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by New Cat's Eye
02-03-2011 2:08 PM


Re: More Than The Wheel
Catholic Scientist writes:
Bottom line in all that has been debated in this and other Exodus threads: Nobody can henceforth truthfully allege that Buzsaw has cited no supportive I say supportive evidence for the Biblical Exodus.
I don't think so, because you did it wrong. Message 283
Reading the Exodus, interpreting the story, guessing at the location, and then finding a wheel...
The wheel is not supportive evidence that the Exodus happened. Its a post-hoc rationalization of something neat that you found.
If you're not eliminating other possibilities for the wheel then you're not supporting anything.
It's not the wheel. It's wheel and axle formS encased with coral. These forms are lying on an underwater field which is fairly void of much else such as rocks, etc. There is one which is notable in that it appears to be an upright axle with a wheel shaped form. The form resembles a pedestal table.
This, corroborated by so much other evidence descriptive of the flood account is significant supportive scientific evidence of the Exodus event as described in the Biblical record.
Imo, this makes every bit as much sense as some of the evidences scientists rely upon for some of their hypotheses and theories. It makes more sense than some of the people or animals which they construct from jaws or skulls etc.
Edited by Buzsaw, : Overlooked spelling

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-03-2011 2:08 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 352 by Admin, posted 02-03-2011 9:34 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 371 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-04-2011 5:27 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 343 of 657 (603326)
02-03-2011 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by New Cat's Eye
01-31-2011 2:36 PM


Re: The Scientific Method
Catholic Scientist writes:
A hypothesis based on the observation of a phenomenon, i.e. evidence.
In this case, the phenomenon is the Biblical Exodus account of an unusual event. The scientific method is being applied to falsify the Biblical record.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-31-2011 2:36 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 345 by Coyote, posted 02-03-2011 8:39 PM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 344 of 657 (603327)
02-03-2011 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by PaulK
02-03-2011 2:40 PM


Re: where's the wheel?
PaulK writes:
See this thread "Chariot Wheels" In the Red Sea
Yes! Thank you Paul. And if you need a good look at the debris, take five minutes or so and watch Lennart Mollart's claimed evidence.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by PaulK, posted 02-03-2011 2:40 PM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 347 by ringo, posted 02-03-2011 9:09 PM Buzsaw has replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2127 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 345 of 657 (603330)
02-03-2011 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by Buzsaw
02-03-2011 7:51 PM


Re: The Scientific Method
The scientific method is being applied to falsify the Biblical record.
So? What's wrong with that. You want a special exemption or something?
The scientific method has already falsified the flood story. Even my own personal archaeological research has done that--it's so easy almost anyone can do it now!
Any religious belief that can't stand up to scrutiny isn't worth much to start with, eh?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by Buzsaw, posted 02-03-2011 7:51 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 346 by Buzsaw, posted 02-03-2011 9:04 PM Coyote has replied

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