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Author Topic:   The Social Implications Of "The Singularity Moment"
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 51 of 169 (604703)
02-14-2011 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by crashfrog
02-13-2011 11:16 PM


crashfrog writes:
This is an interpretation of someones emotions. It is not a physical or concrete thing. To me it would not be his grandfathers axe.
I know, I'm just trying to get a handle on your opinion, here. It's clearly his grandfather's axe when it has the original head and handle, right? And your opinion is that it has stopped being his grandfather's axe once the head and handle have been replaced.
So where's the boundary? Be specific. When his father replaces the head? When he replaces the handle?
Well, me - I'd say all of the above.
And also I'd say none of the above.
Simultaneously.
But also lying.
Maybe I would answer "Yes, the apple blossoms are indeed going to be particularly good this spring."

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by xongsmith, posted 02-14-2011 12:56 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 52 of 169 (604704)
02-14-2011 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by xongsmith
02-14-2011 12:51 PM


42
BTW, the Singularity has already occurred. We missed a great party...

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by xongsmith, posted 02-14-2011 12:51 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 55 of 169 (604708)
02-14-2011 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by New Cat's Eye
02-14-2011 12:57 PM


Re: "Absorb Technological Change" - Huh?
Catholic Scientist writes:
We're talking about science fiction in the COFFEE HOUSE FORUM!
As Ernest Borgnine said back to William Holden in The Wild Bunch, in the late glow of the campfire, "I wouldn't have it any other way..."

- xongsmith, 5.7d

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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 103 of 169 (604906)
02-15-2011 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Rahvin
02-15-2011 11:34 AM


Rahvin writes:
AGI is irrelevant to the Fermi Paradox. You don't need AGI to be bleeding radio and other transmissions all over the Universe. We've been doing it since the 30s, long before we even conceived of such things as Turing tests. Hell, that was before transistors.
Say we have been sending out electromagnetic radiation for ~100 years out of 4.5 billion years of Earth's existence.
Considering Arthur C. Clarke's approximate saying, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", the implications of another technological existence out there in space still using something so arcane as to be limited by the speed of light is ludicrous. Ursula LeGuinn has many stories set in 1 ficton where communication is done instantaneously via the Ansible. Surely any sufficiently higher level of technology would have long ago abandoned using electromagnetic waves. It would be like a country today, anxious to communicate with other countries, setting up some watchmen in towers, looking for horses on the horizon - horses of the Pony Express.
In other words, we may have already missed the signal shell, expanding at the speed of light, as it's 100-200 light-year thickness went through the earth's neighborhood millions of years ago already.
However, the Von Neumann machines, being some kind of AGI or even less, could be a different story, since no one would be out there to shut them all off. Perhaps the FTL technology would allow them to do it.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

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 Message 104 by cavediver, posted 02-16-2011 4:30 AM xongsmith has replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 107 of 169 (605048)
02-16-2011 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by cavediver
02-16-2011 4:30 AM


cavediver writes:
the implications of another technological existence out there in space still using something so arcane as to be limited by the speed of light is ludicrous.
Not really. To start, FTL is a meaningless concept without extensive qualification. If you are "simply" talking about the ability to move between two space-time points that are not causally connected, then you are talking about space-time manipulation of almost god-like proportions, and the idea that anything with such ability would be concerned with something as trivial as "moving" is bizarre.
Ursula LeGuinn has many stories set in 1 ficton where communication is done instantaneously via the Ansible.
And again, this is complete nonsense for the simple reason is that there is no such thing as "instantaneously" in a universe like ours where there is no such thing as "simultaneity"...
Ok. You give a serious answer of something I was intending to be light-hearted. Basically it amounts to the speed of light being too damn slow.
So then would you agree that the universe is just too damned big to go anywhere or send a "Hello, world!" message? Going anywhere would take generations & generations to do and would be very unlikely to keep focused over time. Messaging and waiting for a reply would also take too long.
But probably the main reason SETI will fail is that all of the equivalent efforts on other worlds would have died in congressional committee and never reach the floor for a vote, just like our own SETI eventually will.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 148 of 169 (605439)
02-19-2011 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by crashfrog
02-18-2011 10:48 PM


Re: Non-Linear Absorption
It seems there some assumptions here:
1: the rate of technological innovation is exponential.
2. the rate of "cultural absorption" is linear.
Never mind asking for evidence on these sorts of things....
It's all about what "feels" right....
I would suggest that the rate of technological innovation is closer to FACTORIAL and the rate of cultural absorption is exponential because it is directly linked to the population of the earth, which grows exponentially.
FACTORIAL?? Technology advances as the interconnections of each scientific discipline crosses over into the others. This is a graph of lines connecting to the other nodes, which grows much faster than e^(at) does (Latex is giving me shit right now).
So - on the one hand crash maybe didn't get the math graphs right, but on the other hand, the technological explosion could indeed overtake the ability of us all to do anything about it.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by crashfrog, posted 02-18-2011 10:48 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 156 of 169 (607951)
03-08-2011 2:57 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Rrhain
03-08-2011 2:01 AM


Rrhain writes:
quote:
I'm the same person even if all my molecules changed into other equivalent molecules, we agreed on that.
No, we didn't. Not the way you're playing with it.
quote:
Why wouldn't I be the same person if all my molecules changed into equivalent virtual molecules inside a chemistry simulation program?
Because "you" are a biological construct, not an electronic one.
"Bones" McCoy has already been there, done that.
AND I AGREE WITH HIM! And Rrhain for this flavor of it.
Rrhain: Imagine a future where you get brain tissue transplanted into you brain and it sits there for awhile. doing nothing, but after a while has taken on some of the brain's duties, including *memory*. *This has already been documented*! It can be googled now.
Imagine the next step whereby an interface has been created to open up a conduit between the brain and an embedded flash drive (or whatever it is when this occurs). Imagine now that the embedded storage area is taking on data. Imagine that, VIA DREAMING, which may be a way of repacking all we experience, a rezipping of the zipfile, some of the data is stored on this embedded device in some local format that nobody could guess. Or other ways of offloading the very you-ness of you onto this peripheral device embedded inside your head as a storage device originally. Years go by and the technology improves the bandwidth, but mostly addresses consumer comments. Then, is it too much of a step to think that the "self-awareness-consciousness" might also leak into this device? Things have a habit of leaking. Now jump ahead many years and we may have a situation whereby a dying body can complete the transference, a sort of pouring of the you-ness of you from where it was to where it is now.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Rrhain, posted 03-08-2011 2:01 AM Rrhain has not replied

  
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