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Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
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Author | Topic: Theistic Evolution | |||||||||||||||||||||||
NosyNed Member Posts: 9003 From: Canada Joined: |
When I hear this kind of idea, it seems to me that the individual who accepts it is in the same postition that all of us were a 1,000 years ago.
From a position of almost total ignorance everything we see appears to be magical and totally incomprehensible. From a complete lack of understanding it is possible to arrive at these kind of conclusions and see gods hand everywhere. As we learn to understand what is around us it is very much possible to "look into the sky at the stars, and think about it for a while, and honestly tell" you that I see no sign of any intelligent hand in it at all. The dark curtain of ignorance has been partially pulled away and light shines onto a corner of the universe around us. I may well be awestruck, more so than you perhaps, but I am not deluded.
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Prozacman Inactive Member |
What is your opinion of Panentheism?
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1488 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Honestly answer this one question for me. Look into the mirror, look at the ground, take a swim in the ocean, look into the sky at the stars, and think about it for a while, and honestly tell me that this was not intelligently designed (that God made it), Ok, done all that. And I'm honestly telling you, God had no part in it, because God doesn't exist. I'm being totally honest with you. When I see those things and have those experiences, it's plain as day to me that there's no god and everything around is is the way it is simply because if it wasn't that way, it would be another way.
and say that this all came to be through chance, becuase isnt that what the big bang is....just chance? Yup. Chance. If it wasn't this way, it would be another way. If this is one of the few ways that allows for intelligent life, then it's just chance that it's this way for us, and if it wasn't, well, we wouldn't be here to notice, now would we?
also, enlighten me on how atheism make more sens than my belief, is it becuase it takes less thought and less vulnerbility? It actually takes a whole lot more thought to be an atheist. The first thought is "well, how do I have morals"? Intelligent people come to the conclusion pretty quickly that it's pretty impractical to be truly amoral. If you're the only amoral person, the moral people lock you up. If everybody's amoral, the human race is extinct in a generation. So, you tell me which method of determining moral precepts takes more thought: 1) Looking them up in a book; or 2) Determining rationally what morals are best for the human community. Atheists may be many things, but intellectually lazy isn't one of them. Lazy atheists fall too easily into religion. Anyway, as far as "more sense than your belief" goes, I wasn't talking about your beliefs - I don't know what you believe, after all - but emotional's beliefs, who apparently believes in an unteastable, unfalsifiable God. I question the rational utility of believing in untestable, unfalsifiable things. [This message has been edited by crashfrog, 10-10-2003]
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Pringlesguy7 Inactive Member |
prozacman
What do you mean, do you mean like the Greek Pantheon? (Correct me if im wrong, but that does mean the Higherarchy of gods)
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John Inactive Member |
I figure this is what he means.
www.panentheism.com ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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Asgara Member (Idle past 2323 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: |
I haven't read such sugary nothingness since the sixties.
Black = whitegood = bad right = wrong = right If one perceives it is possible, even if only remotely possible, that one is within G’d, thus a piece of G’d, and thus impact G’d then altruistic acts become self-serving acts and no longer are altruistic acts. When this occurs, then what were previously perceived to be self-serving acts become self-destructive acts. Is this not proof in and of itself that the system of symbiotic panentheism is a perceptual shift, and thus a new metaphysical system? from the link on John's post
I tried reading through the whole link, but could find nothing of substance. (at least nothing I understood) If someone else understands this maybe they could explain? ------------------Asgara "An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato
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John Inactive Member |
Sugary nothingness... I like that-- kinda sexy.
Did you go to the library page? Philosophy in pictures!!! Can't beat that. This one especially is illuminating???? ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9003 From: Canada Joined: |
I couldn't find the word --Panentheism
I did find pantheism: A doctrine identifying the Deity with the universe and its phenomena. Belief in and worship of all gods. I'd say I don't think much about either meaning. I don't even really understand what it implies.
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Prozacman Inactive Member |
NNNNNOOOOOOOOOO! The greeks have nothing to do with Panentheism. Also Panentheism is not the same as Pantheism, if you'd like to know. Whereas Pan-theism teaches that God IS everything and everything IS God, Pan-en-thiesm is quite different. The meanings of the word parts are: Pan=everything, en=in, and theos=God; everything in God. IOW Panentheism means that God contains, or holds everything that exists within himself(itself, whatever). The whole of the universe is only a small part of this god. It means that this kind of god is very physical in the natural sense as well as spiritual. In theology-speak this kind of god is both immanent & transendant(right here and more than right here). Therefor evolution may be very characteristic of this god.
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Prozacman Inactive Member |
Please refer to my reply #54 to Pringlesguy for a short and I hope accurate definition of Panentheism. There's only one god within this system, but he(it,whatever) is not the supernatural Judeo-Christian-Islamic god. This god doesn't reach down into the physical world and change the laws of nature in order to perform a "miracle" like YHWH or Jesus. The laws of nature are a part of this god, so evolution can happen and "miracles" must be within the bounds of physical law. Just type "Panentheism" into Yahoo and a bunch of references will pop-up. By the way, I do not subscribe to this theory. I'm just curious.
[This message has been edited by Prozacman, 10-13-2003]
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Prozacman Inactive Member |
I just looked at the site you provided and I can't say I accept the philosophy presented there. It certainly does look like some tie-die shirt, dope-smoking, thing from the 60's. I was only curious as to what Panentheism involved and whether or not it might or might not be compatable with theistic-evolution. Otherwise I am agnostic.
[This message has been edited by Prozacman, 10-13-2003]
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Prozacman Inactive Member |
I will read it again, for the 5th time, and attempt(HA!) to understand. Then maybe...Just maybe... I'll be able to explain it(Yeah, right). But I'm definitely not one to believe such esoteric googleslop!
[This message has been edited by Prozacman, 10-13-2003]
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Prozacman Inactive Member |
So boredom is the issue? Let's see, if I'm not mistaken the library page you referenced seems to be saying this:1. God got bored being alone. 2. God made the universe(multiverse?) to keep from getting bored and lonely. AAAWWWWWW! Poor Guy! Here, have a lollypop!
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John Inactive Member |
Yeah, that looks about right to me.
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No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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Prozacman Inactive Member |
Aaaahh! That's better; the Zantac's working! Anyway, this God got bored with himself(themselves?), created everything to amuse himself, and THEN, depending on one's religion, stuck everyone in a no-choice situation. "Either you believe in me(us, it, etc.) and do what I say or your toast!"
What in bejezus does this gobbledeegook have to do with theistic-evolution? Hmmm... Maybe we were stuck by this God into this no-choice situation: We must eat and reproduce in order to survive and pass our genes, which are mutating, on to our future descendants. We don't really have a choice about survival unless we want to starve to death in miserable pain; a lousy prospect, AND our offspring must fight tooth&nail with the possible mutated advantages they have in order to eat and carry on, unless they too wish to starve to death in miserable pain. Who was it who said, "Rejoice, rejoice, we have no choice??" AND, Who would want to believe in a god like that?? [This message has been edited by Prozacman, 10-15-2003]
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