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Author Topic:   How do scientists explain the cause of the Ice Age(s)?
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 61 of 96 (605976)
02-22-2011 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Dr Adequate
02-26-2010 3:01 AM


Re: Who can say?
DrA writes:
Very well. I maintain that the vast majority of creationists are sincere, and I shall argue for it. Start a thread.
This is an iffy statement. At what point do we draw the line between willful ignorance and lying to oneself and others?
As for me, I do not see a difference between leaving out evidence, twist or falsify data, exaggerate moot points, etc. and lying. Those of us who have been in this argument for years have observed how creationists willfully twist people's words to serve their own purpose.
A long time ago, I attended a lecture by a very well spoken creationist. I say well spoken because he was one of the best public speakers I have ever seen. That said, his whole lecture was basically pulling quotes from scientists out of context. In one instance, he put up a quote by a scientist that said something like rocks can be dated by the fossil found in it. Then he put up another quote by the same scientist that said something like fossils could be dated by the rocks they were found in. He, of course, got a laugh from the audience, who I'm sure made up by the unwashed masses.
I remember saying to myself "this guy just lied right through his teeth by taking someone's quotes out of context."
In fact, off the top of my head I can't think of any creo who didn't ignore evidence presented by scientists. Ignoring evidence seems to be the only way they can continue to believe in creationism.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner.

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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 62 of 96 (605991)
02-23-2011 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Robert Byers
02-22-2011 7:48 PM


They would be close to the action, ever heard of the Mediterranean Sea? the melting of Ice age ice would overflow the Mediterranean and flood the middle east & North Africa.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 96 (606074)
02-23-2011 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by slevesque
02-26-2010 1:46 AM


Sorry,
void
Edited by NoNukes, : Responding to a year old post seems silly

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Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 64 of 96 (606146)
02-23-2011 10:51 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Taq
02-22-2011 7:49 PM


Taq writes:
No problem and in fact these days they are used to demonstrate that it was all from mega floods and not slow moving glaciers.
How do mega floods produce these features?
Studies on mega floods show almost all formations in sediment or bedrock are from fast flowing water. That is the votices and other mechanisms within the flow. even Drumlins are seen now as from mega floods.

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 Message 59 by Taq, posted 02-22-2011 7:49 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 65 of 96 (606147)
02-23-2011 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Robert Byers
02-23-2011 10:51 PM


Studies on mega floods show almost all formations in sediment or bedrock are from fast flowing water. That is the votices and other mechanisms within the flow. even Drumlins are seen now as from mega floods.
Try this site for examples that contradict your statement:
http://www.uwsp.edu/...ticipants/dutch/vtrips/scablands0.htm
And here is one picture from that site:
ps. The global flood ca. 4,350 years ago is a tribal myth that has been disproved in many ways, beginning about 200 years ago. Even my own research disproves that flood myth. (Ask me how, if you dare.)

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 66 of 96 (606148)
02-23-2011 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Robert Byers
02-23-2011 10:51 PM


Studies on mega floods show almost all formations in sediment or bedrock are from fast flowing water. That is the votices and other mechanisms within the flow. even Drumlins are seen now as from mega floods.
I think we were looking for a little more detail and evidence than that, rather than mere assertion.
As it stands, you might as well have written:
Studies on flying pigs show almost all formations in sediment or bedrock are from pigs fluttering their wings. That is the votices and other mechanisms within the fluttering. even Drumlins are seen now as from flying pigs.

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Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 67 of 96 (606164)
02-24-2011 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by bluescat48
02-23-2011 1:01 AM


bluescat48 writes:
They would be close to the action, ever heard of the Mediterranean Sea? the melting of Ice age ice would overflow the Mediterranean and flood the middle east & North Africa.
In fact it is said that the Med sea was carved out by fast flowing water into it. They put it in a earlier age then the glacial period but still its all about the sea being created by water surges.
I'm by the way not saying the melting of the ice was what carved out the med. i see it as from a world event a few centuries after the great flood. There was a rise in sea levels everywhere. This from a great upheaval on continents as I see it.
anyways the point is YES the Med was created by incoming water.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by bluescat48, posted 02-23-2011 1:01 AM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by bluescat48, posted 02-24-2011 1:52 AM Robert Byers has replied
 Message 69 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-24-2011 2:25 AM Robert Byers has replied
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 68 of 96 (606168)
02-24-2011 1:52 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by Robert Byers
02-24-2011 1:19 AM


You are missing my point, the med sea was already there in 2100 BCE. if as your hypothesis would have, the melting waters would flow into the med sea and overflow all around it including Canaan & Mesopotamia.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Robert Byers, posted 02-24-2011 1:19 AM Robert Byers has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Robert Byers, posted 02-28-2011 5:34 AM bluescat48 has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 69 of 96 (606172)
02-24-2011 2:25 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by Robert Byers
02-24-2011 1:19 AM


In fact it is said that the Med sea was carved out by fast flowing water into it.
Said by whom, on what basis?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Robert Byers, posted 02-24-2011 1:19 AM Robert Byers has replied

Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 70 of 96 (606496)
02-25-2011 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Robert Byers
02-24-2011 1:19 AM


In fact it is said that the Med sea was carved out by fast flowing water into it.
It is also said that Mikey from the Life cereal commercials died when he ingested Pop Rocks and Pepsi. People say a lot of things. What matters is the evidence. Do you have any?

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 71 of 96 (606497)
02-25-2011 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Robert Byers
02-23-2011 10:51 PM


Studies on mega floods show almost all formations in sediment or bedrock are from fast flowing water.
What type of formation could a mega flood not produce? How does a mega flood produce 400 foot thick chalk deposits made up of coccolithophores? How do mega floods create lake varves where the insect and leaf debris is sorted by minute differences in 14C? How do megafloods produce fossilized windswept sand dunes like those seen in the Cocconino sandstones in the Grand Canyon? How do megafloods produce incised gooseneck meanders like those seen here:

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Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 72 of 96 (606740)
02-28-2011 5:34 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by bluescat48
02-24-2011 1:52 AM


bluescat48 writes:
You are missing my point, the med sea was already there in 2100 BCE. if as your hypothesis would have, the melting waters would flow into the med sea and overflow all around it including Canaan & Mesopotamia.
When ever it came in the BC it still was a excavation of the land that created the Med sea. Before it was dry land which allowed rapid animal migration. in fact they find concentrations of creatures, post flood, killed and collected in some islands showing they were overthrown by this event.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 73 of 96 (606741)
02-28-2011 5:36 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Dr Adequate
02-24-2011 2:25 AM


its a common mention in books dealing with the origin of the Med sea.
Not creationist material.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-24-2011 2:25 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
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Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 74 of 96 (606743)
02-28-2011 5:38 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Taq
02-25-2011 6:16 PM


Taq writes:
Studies on mega floods show almost all formations in sediment or bedrock are from fast flowing water.
What type of formation could a mega flood not produce? How does a mega flood produce 400 foot thick chalk deposits made up of coccolithophores? How do mega floods create lake varves where the insect and leaf debris is sorted by minute differences in 14C? How do megafloods produce fossilized windswept sand dunes like those seen in the Cocconino sandstones in the Grand Canyon? How do megafloods produce incised gooseneck meanders like those seen here:
I only meant the mega floods created certain earth geography. I meant that the melted ice was the origin of the mega floods. not noahs flood.
It was a example of how mega floods are now seen to have done massive instand work.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 75 of 96 (606744)
02-28-2011 5:54 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Robert Byers
02-28-2011 5:36 AM


its a common mention in books dealing with the origin of the Med sea.
No it isn't.
It's widely accepted that the Med was filled by a breach of the Straits of Gibraltar, but not that the Mediterranean basin was excavated by the water in question. How would that even work?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Robert Byers, posted 02-28-2011 5:36 AM Robert Byers has replied

Replies to this message:
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