EvC Forum: Thoughts on the Creator Conclusion

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Topic: Thoughts on the Creator Conclusion

jar

Member (Idle past 414 days)

Posts: 34026

From: Texas!!

Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 158 of 187 (605548)
02-20-2011 7:47 PM

Reply to: Message 157 by goldrush
02-20-2011 7:27 PM

immutable truth is always worth a chuckle or three

goldrush writes:

I have left this "logic argument" for a while to see how things would develop with it, but it doesn't seem to be producing many posts, so I will stir the pot a little. I see where you all are going, but you seem to have missed the real point of my argument completely. That is: If it is true that our brains, (and our logic) are a product of evolution, how can we trust logic to prove anything? What prevents logic from changing as evolution continues? If (our current) logic can change, what then is the basis of truth or proving anything? Can an absolute (immutable) truths really be discovered with logic under such circumstances? How can we ever be sure we are right (or will ever be right) about anything? On what basis, then, is logic valid?

Absolute and immutable truths are always good for a laugh.

Sorry but that is simply silly.

Logic is just a tool, like a hammer or a screwdriver it is not right or wrong.

We test conclusions against the evidence. The conclusion that most closely matches the evidence is the one we use. Proofs are valid in mathematics and in photography, no where else.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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	Message 157 by goldrush, posted 02-20-2011 7:27 PM		goldrush has replied

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	Message 163 by goldrush, posted 02-27-2011 10:03 PM		jar has replied

jar

Member (Idle past 414 days)

Posts: 34026

From: Texas!!

Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 164 of 187 (606700)
02-27-2011 10:30 PM

Reply to: Message 163 by goldrush
02-27-2011 10:03 PM

Re: immutable truth is always worth a chuckle or three

goldrush writes:

You may laugh in the face of absolute truth, but if it really did not exist then why isn't everything correct?

HUH?

I'm pretty sure that makes no sense and likely you will be able to correct it so folk might understand. I laugh because so far no one has ever presented an example of "Absolute Truth" or even shown why it might be of some value.

Of course there are things that are absolutely true, that 2 + 2 will equal 4 in the conventional counting system but so far I've never come across an Absolute Truth.

goldrush writes:

Why do you rely on science to discover knowledge? Furthermore, why does scientific "truth" change with new discoveries?

Science doesn't discover knowledge and there is no such thing as Scientific truth. Science is a tool we use, nothing more. And our knowledge changes as new information is discovered.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
	Message 163 by goldrush, posted 02-27-2011 10:03 PM		goldrush has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 166 by goldrush, posted 02-28-2011 12:45 AM		jar has replied

jar

Member (Idle past 414 days)

Posts: 34026

From: Texas!!

Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 167 of 187 (606756)
02-28-2011 9:08 AM

Reply to: Message 166 by goldrush
02-28-2011 12:45 AM

Re: immutable truth is always worth a chuckle or three

goldrush writes:

I am not arguing that science is a tool. The reason I had "truths" in quotes was because even though people are quick to say they don't exist, they herald discoveries made through science as fact, proof, and hard evidence, which are soft forms of absolute truth. The reason our knowledge changes with new discoveries is because absolute truth exists. As a matter of fact, logic is rather absolute. To say that absolute truth does not exist is a contradiction since such a statement would be an absolute truth. If we conclude that all truth is relative, it is relative to something: absolute truth.

Sheesh.

Nice try little one, but first learn to read.

If you read what I have written you will see that I have said there are things that are absolutely true, for example in our normal counting system 2 + 2 = 4.

That is different than saying that there is some "Absolute TRUTH".

And I don't really care that you are "not arguing that science is a tool" because it most obviously is a tool. No one has said it is not a tool.

A "soft form of absolute truth" is what?

It certainly is not a fact, for example the hard fact that the Biblical Flood never happened. Now that is an absolute truth unless the God that that did it is also a liar and a cheat.

And what we find when we get away from facts and into areas such as morality is yet again, not some absolute truth. Morals are relative to the individual situation, the society and other relative morals. No absolute morals needed.

But what does any of this have to do with the topic?

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
	Message 166 by goldrush, posted 02-28-2011 12:45 AM		goldrush has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 169 by goldrush, posted 03-01-2011 9:12 PM		jar has replied

jar

Member (Idle past 414 days)

Posts: 34026

From: Texas!!

Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 170 of 187 (607074)
03-01-2011 9:13 PM

Reply to: Message 169 by goldrush
03-01-2011 9:12 PM

Re: immutable truth is always worth a chuckle or three

goldrush writes:

So finally you admit the validity of absolute truth.

Read what I write. In case you missed it...

quote:
Sheesh.

Nice try little one, but first learn to read.

If you read what I have written you will see that I have said there are things that are absolutely true, for example in our normal counting system 2 + 2 = 4.

That is different than saying that there is some "Absolute TRUTH".

And I don't really care that you are "not arguing that science is a tool" because it most obviously is a tool. No one has said it is not a tool.

A "soft form of absolute truth" is what?

It certainly is not a fact, for example the hard fact that the Biblical Flood never happened. Now that is an absolute truth unless the God that that did it is also a liar and a cheat.

And what we find when we get away from facts and into areas such as morality is yet again, not some absolute truth. Morals are relative to the individual situation, the society and other relative morals. No absolute morals needed.

But what does any of this have to do with the topic?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
	Message 169 by goldrush, posted 03-01-2011 9:12 PM		goldrush has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 172 by goldrush, posted 03-01-2011 9:25 PM		jar has seen this message but not replied

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