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Author Topic:   Problems with evolution? Submit your questions.
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 334 of 752 (580292)
09-08-2010 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 333 by Tram law
09-08-2010 1:58 PM


Tram law writes:
It's what I've been told and taught all my life.
It's wrong though. Follow straggler's link in Message 331 to see what an actual neurologist has to say about it.

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 Message 333 by Tram law, posted 09-08-2010 1:58 PM Tram law has replied

Replies to this message:
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 336 of 752 (580296)
09-08-2010 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by Tram law
09-08-2010 2:22 PM


well, Wiki has an article about it. I suggest you start there and follow the link under "references" for more material on it.

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 358 of 752 (580452)
09-09-2010 7:03 AM
Reply to: Message 344 by dennis780
09-08-2010 11:17 PM


Re: What's the problem?
dennis780 writes:
I'll make you a deal. If you find me 15 examples of genetic mutation of new functional DNA (coding for any protien, trait, or physical attribute that was not present in past organisms of the species), I will concede the genetic arguement.
1. The short legs of the dachshund. A physical atribute not present in it's ancestors, gained by an insertion in it's DNA.
14 left.

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Replies to this message:
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 360 of 752 (580457)
09-09-2010 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 359 by frako
09-09-2010 7:12 AM


Re: What's the problem?
3. Lizards develop cecal valve to help digest plants. A physical atribute not present in thier ancestors.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/...ases/2008/04/080417112433.htm
12 left.

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 373 of 752 (581052)
09-13-2010 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 365 by Taq
09-09-2010 12:02 PM


Re: What's the problem?
As Percy mentioned in Message 156 in the Is there any proof of beneficial mutations? thread:
The evolution of a lighter pelt in Deer Mice. Link
7 left.

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 375 of 752 (581056)
09-13-2010 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 374 by frako
09-13-2010 9:11 AM


Re: Evolution Proven Wrong Again (Bump)
Here you go, you'll need a subscription to "Scientific American" to view the entire article, though.

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 Message 374 by frako, posted 09-13-2010 9:11 AM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 377 of 752 (581059)
09-13-2010 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 376 by frako
09-13-2010 9:36 AM


Re: Evolution Proven Wrong Again (Bump)
frako writes:
am..... i cant see anything in the article that would disprove evolution it only disproves the earlier assumption of when modern birds evolved. i could be missing something cause i cant see the whole article
No, that's pretty much the point Percy was making. Articles like this will quite often be misinterpreted by creationists (or even lied about), who will say the article proves evolution is wrong. When it doesn't do that at all, it just shows that evolution took a different route than hitherto thought.

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 568 of 752 (606947)
03-01-2011 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 567 by havoc
03-01-2011 8:59 AM


Re: Cows
havoc writes:
"One mechanism" of evolution? Mutation selected by natural selection is the only story out there is it not?
No, there is also genetic drift and horizontal gene transfer.
How many generations does it take for a cow to change into something else? How many generations did it take dinos to change into birds?
No idea, but probably alot.
How do you falsify the evo dogma?
By gathering evidence that it cannot explain. And it's not dogma.

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 Message 567 by havoc, posted 03-01-2011 8:59 AM havoc has replied

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 574 of 752 (606960)
03-01-2011 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 570 by havoc
03-01-2011 9:42 AM


Re: Cows
havoc writes:
But for creating "new" information mutation is the only choice, correct?
Depends on what you mean by "new" information.
I cant think of any conceivable evidence that darwinists would not just simply say "well now we know that evolution can do this".
It's not evolution's fault that you can't think of such a piece of evidence. I'll give you a hint: A pegasus horse would falsify evolution as we know it. It wuold of course not prove creationism, but something about the theory would have to be changed.
Dogma: An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true.
How does this not fit with the popular darwinian evolution belief?
Becuase it is not held to be absolutely true for one.

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 577 of 752 (606965)
03-01-2011 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 576 by havoc
03-01-2011 10:22 AM


Re: Cows
havoc writes:
So I need to find a mythical creator and that will falsify evolution "as we know it". Interesting choice of words.
But true. It was just an example. You could also try to find a crustacean with mamary glands, that would also do it.

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 580 of 752 (606968)
03-01-2011 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 575 by havoc
03-01-2011 10:15 AM


Re: Cows
havoc writes:
Biology text books will say that Dinos evolved into birds, flat out and unequivocally.
That's because the kind of biology text books that say this are simply starting out simple to not confuse the audience. Physics textbooks start with newtonian physics, even though some of that (gravity comes to mind0 is actually wrong. They don't start out with string theory, this would hopelessly confuse the audience.
Edited by Huntard, : No reason given.

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 608 of 752 (607002)
03-01-2011 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 602 by Coyote
03-01-2011 11:32 AM


Re: Cows
Coyote writes:
Now that sounds like dogma!
Which was his point. In his mind, we are out to destroy all desent. This was not a statement he made, this was a (wrong) observation he made.

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 647 of 752 (607138)
03-02-2011 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 645 by havoc
03-02-2011 9:25 AM


Re: DNA, mutation AND selection
havoc writes:
Every famous mutation such as herbicide and antibiotic resistance once examined at the molecular level has been shown to involve information loss.
Could you show some evidence for this? Or are you just going to assert that this was so?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 649 of 752 (607141)
03-02-2011 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 646 by havoc
03-02-2011 9:35 AM


Re: my karma ran over your dogma
havoc writes:
There is plenty of evidence consistent with a designer.
And all evidence that is now available and will ever be available is consistent with last-thursday-ism. Does that make it true? Consistency means nothing, you need positive evidence.
Much we would agree upon, Homology, DNA etc. It’s really more a world view question than evidence based; I mean we all look at the same fossils and draw different inferences.
But your inference does not follow from the evidence, or at the very least violates parsimony. You have a pre-conceived notion of what should be the conclusion, and so shoe-horn everything into that.
Creation is evidence of a creator. You find an arrow head in the desert you know it had a maker even if you know nothing else of the maker.
Only because the arrowhead (created) is so completely different from it's surroundings (not created). Well, not only, but that is a lso a very important reason.

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 652 of 752 (607145)
03-02-2011 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 651 by havoc
03-02-2011 9:58 AM


Re: DNA, mutation AND selection
That's a list of assertions, not evidence, show the studies please. Also, I see that Nylonase is absent, so this certainly doesn't include "every famous mutation". Also, I'm not sure how this constitutes "information loss". I could just as easily assert that these things were an information gain (there was information added to change the rate of enzyme activity, as a counterpoint to your second item on the list).

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Replies to this message:
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