|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
Junior Member (Idle past 5060 days) Posts: 1 From: Austin, TX, US Joined: |
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Problems with evolution? Submit your questions. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
New functionality. Lets take the dino to bird example. You would have to have mutations that increased the information in the genome and tell the dino how to change from making scales to making feathers, body plan, bone structure, lung design. This doesnt occur and without the preconcived notion that it must have occured there is no evidence for it. I mean the fossile evidence interpetation is more art than science. How did you determine that mutations were not responsible for the appearance of feathers in dinosaurs? There are plenty of examples of feathers in non-avian dinosaurs by the way. Also, if the fossils we have do not meet your standards then please tell us what a real intermediate fossil would look like.
Mutations do not add new functional info. So the millions of mutations that separate humans and chimps are not responsible for the differences between humans and chimps? Really?
It would take millions of these fictional mutations to turn a "simple cell" into a human. And this is a problem how?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Agreed mutations can and do occure. However you can shake up the scrabble board as often as you like and you will never get a Shakespeare. I wasn't aware that Shakespeare was found in the genome of any species. There are a lot of CAT's and TAG's, but no ROMEO or JULIET.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Agreed mutations can and do occure. However you can shake up the scrabble board as often as you like and you will never get a Shakespeare. That's why you need a selective pressure. If you kept all the random mix of letters that did make words and re-shook all the ones that didn't, eventually you would have enough words to at least make some line from Shakespeare.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
This doesnt occur How do you know?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
havoc Member (Idle past 4783 days) Posts: 89 Joined: |
So the millions of mutations that separate humans and chimps are not responsible for the differences between humans and chimps? Really? nice to here a evolutionist admit the vast difference in the genetic code between the chimps and us chumps. mutations lead to loss of function. wingless beatles etc. they can be advantagious but are inverably in the opposite direction of your theory. Try your examle from before in reverse. Take two poodles add and a bunch of genereations and I'll even through in an intellegence in the breader and see if you can ever get back to the wolf. once the genetic information is lost it is gone chance and time will never bring it back.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
New functionality. Lets take the dino to bird example. You would have to have mutations that increased the information in the genome and tell the dino how to change from making scales to making feathers, body plan, bone structure, lung design. This doesnt occur and without the preconcived notion that it must have occured there is no evidence for it. I mean the fossile evidence interpetation is more art than science. That's a good way to ignore the evidence. Well, not a good way, but probably about the best you can do. All those intermediate forms between basal theropods and modern birds ... yeah, that probably is the best you can come up with. But perhaps you could fill us in on the details of your delusion. In what way would it be "more art than science" to observe that (for example) Archaeopteryx has teeth and gastralia but no synsacrum or pygostyle? The aesthetic element to which you allude escapes me.
Mutations do not add new functional info. And yet we can watch this happeneing.
It would take millions of these fictional mutations ... Are you denying the existence of mutations now?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
mutations lead to loss of function. wingless beatles etc. they can be advantagious but are inverably in the opposite direction of your theory. Funny you should mention wings... we've seen that they've been lost and reemerged in one group of bugs. I'm just going to take the rebuttle to this from one of RAZD's previous posts: From Message 104 quote:
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
havoc writes: So the millions of mutations that separate humans and chimps are not responsible for the differences between humans and chimps? Really? nice to here a evolutionist admit the vast difference in the genetic code between the chimps and us chumps. mutations lead to loss of function. wingless beatles etc. they can be advantagious but are inverably in the opposite direction of your theory. Try your examle from before in reverse. Take two poodles add and a bunch of genereations and I'll even through in an intellegence in the breader and see if you can ever get back to the wolf. once the genetic information is lost it is gone chance and time will never bring it back. HUH? What genetic loss of information? Maybe it is a language problem again. Do you think the difference between a wolf and a puppy doggie is that the puppy doggie somehow lost some genetic information that was in a wolf? Are you thinking about the creationist nonsense of some super genome or that things devolved from some perfect state? Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
nice to here a evolutionist admit the vast difference in the genetic code between the chimps and us chumps. To be precise, about seven million years' worth of difference, given the measured rate of mutation. Which fits nicely with the fossil evidence. If you enjoy hearing evolutionists "admitting" that the predictions of the theory of evolution are quantitatively correct, then stick around, you're going to love it here.
mutations lead to loss of function. wingless beatles etc. they can be advantagious but are inverably in the opposite direction of your theory. Try your examle from before in reverse. Take two poodles add and a bunch of genereations and I'll even through in an intellegence in the breader and see if you can ever get back to the wolf. once the genetic information is lost it is gone chance and time will never bring it back. If reciting creationist dogma magically made it true, then creationists would win arguments. But it does not, and merely announcing your inaccurate beliefs is not the same as arguing for them. We can watch genetic information being "brought back" by "chance and time"; for example in the Ames test, to name just one prominent example of reversion. But a man who refers to mutations as "mythical" will doubtless have no trouble ignoring the existence of reversion. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
havoc Member (Idle past 4783 days) Posts: 89 Joined: |
Nice chatting with u all. Got to run back to real life. maple trees to tap. I got to hurry though before they change into pines just wouldnt taste the same.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2135 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
mutations lead to loss of function. wingless beatles etc. they can be advantagious but are inverably in the opposite direction of your theory.
You seem to be arguing from a belief in some mythical "fall." ... once the genetic information is lost it is gone chance and time will never bring it back. Your argument is not supported by real world evidence. Mutations can be deleterious, neutral, or beneficial in relation to a particular environment. Of course, if that environment changes the deleterious, neutral, or beneficial has to be reevaluated in light of that new environment. For example, the mutation for light skin would be deleterious in Africa, while it was highly beneficial in moving into and north of Europe during the recent ice age. And you are not looking at just one mutation at a time; each generation has hundreds of mutations. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
havoc Member (Idle past 4783 days) Posts: 89 Joined: |
What, I thought this was an open site for debate. what makes me a troll. I think the evidence points to design you do not. I enjoy this type of debate that is why I am here. challenging myself to look up new information and see how it fits my beliefs.
name calling shows your true collors my friend. Alot of scared people on this site. to bad have your debates amongst yourself.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Hi Havoc, welcome aboard!
By chance you seem to have begun your participation at EvC Forum in the only unmoderated forum. This thread is in the Free For All forum, and there's no moderation here, except for some occasional checking that the threads remain at least somewhat on-topic. If you'd like a more focused discussion you might try one of the threads in the Science Forums or in the Religious Forums, where moderators tend to place the emphasis on evidence-based discussion and on following the Forum Guidelines.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
nice to here a evolutionist admit the vast difference in the genetic code between the chimps and us chumps. Vast? We are talking about a 2% difference for point mutations and a 5% difference when considering insertions and deletions. That is hardly vast. There are hundreds of thousands of mutations that separate one human from another.
mutations lead to loss of function. So what functions are we missing compared to chimps?
Try your examle from before in reverse. Take two poodles add and a bunch of genereations and I'll even through in an intellegence in the breader and see if you can ever get back to the wolf. Due to the accumulation of random mutations it is impossible for evolution to run in reverse. You might as well expect rivers to start flowing uphill.
once the genetic information is lost it is gone chance and time will never bring it back. Why would evolution need to bring it back?
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024