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Author Topic:   What IS evidence of design? (CLOSING STATEMENTS ONLY)
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 377 (607662)
03-05-2011 6:46 PM


Valid Evidence
In Message 35, NoNukes said:
NoNukes writes:
You are playing silly word games. Empirical evidence is the only kind of evidence.
So as not to go off topic this thread appears to be the more appropriate one for a response to NoNukes. My response is as follows:
quote:
There is supportive evidence, i.e. supportive to an hypothesis which may not have empirical evidence. There are also hypotheses which have some empirical evidences and other supportive evidences.
One example of supportive evidence would be corroborative evidences. The more aggregate corroborative evidence supportive to the credibility of the ToE, for example, the more each aspect of the theory is corroborated for advocates of that ideology.
The same goes for Biblical advocates. The more aggregate corroborative evidence supportive to the Biblical record, the more each account in the record is corroborated.

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Coyote, posted 03-05-2011 6:51 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 6 by jar, posted 03-05-2011 6:55 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied
 Message 7 by NoNukes, posted 03-05-2011 7:06 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 377 (607674)
03-05-2011 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Coyote
03-05-2011 6:51 PM


Re: Valid Evidence
Coyote writes:
The same goes for Biblical advocates. The more aggregate corroborative evidence supportive to the Biblical record, the more each account in the record is corroborated.
But how do you count aggregate negative evidence?
Global flood? Young earth? Talking snakes?
Or do you just ignore that negative evidence?
Imo, BB singularity and multi-verse theories have more negative aspects than the above. What is empirical, supportive or what ever will be determined relative to one's ideology.
Do you agree with NoNukes that all evidence must be empirical in order to be considered evidence?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Coyote, posted 03-05-2011 6:51 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by DrJones*, posted 03-05-2011 9:51 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 10 by ringo, posted 03-05-2011 10:12 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 14 by Coyote, posted 03-05-2011 10:39 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 21 by jar, posted 03-06-2011 9:19 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 377 (607680)
03-05-2011 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by DrJones*
03-05-2011 9:51 PM


Re: Valid Evidence
DrJones* writes:
Do you agree with NoNukes that all evidence must be empirical in order to be considered evidence?
Buz do you even know what empirical means?
From the Online Dictionary:
quote:
empirical [ɛmˈpɪrɪkəl]
adj
1. derived from or relating to experiment and observation rather than theory
2. (Medicine) (of medical treatment) based on practical experience rather than scientific proof
3. (Philosophy) Philosophy
a. (of knowledge) derived from experience rather than by logic from first principles Compare a priori, a posteriori
b. (of a proposition) subject, at least theoretically, to verification Compare analytic [4] synthetic [4]
Do you consider all evidence attributed to abiogenesis as empirical as per the above definition? How about multi-verse theory?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by DrJones*, posted 03-05-2011 9:51 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by DrJones*, posted 03-05-2011 10:23 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 15 by NoNukes, posted 03-05-2011 10:39 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 377 (607682)
03-05-2011 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by ringo
03-05-2011 10:12 PM


Re: Valid Evidence
ringo writes:
Buzsaw writes:
What is empirical, supportive or what ever will be determined relative to one's ideology.
The point of empirical evidence is to eliminate ideological differences. People with different ideological/political/religious backgrounds must be able to make the same observations.
But the same empirical evidence is often interpreted differently, depending on the hypothesis. Such is the case in interpreting what formed the large delta which is Nuweiba beach at Aqaba or what formed the Grand Canyon, as examples.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by ringo, posted 03-05-2011 10:12 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 03-05-2011 10:40 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 17 by NoNukes, posted 03-05-2011 10:55 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 19 by Admin, posted 03-06-2011 7:27 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 377 (607713)
03-06-2011 9:49 AM


Evidence of Design
Biblically, humans are designed after the likeness of their designer, unlike brute beasts. This is evidenced in the huge intelligence and reasoning gap between the most intelligent animal and human kind. Among all of the animals, there is no really significant intelligence and reasoning gap, such as is observed between animals and humans.
Biblically, intelligent humans were determined by the designer to rule over the animal kingdom. This has all been observed throughout recorded human history.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by jar, posted 03-06-2011 9:54 AM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied
 Message 26 by fearandloathing, posted 03-06-2011 10:37 AM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 377 (607727)
03-06-2011 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by fearandloathing
03-06-2011 10:37 AM


Re: Evidence of Design
fearandloathing writes:
So if I understand your line of thought then a mouse has no significant difference in intelligence or ability to reason compared to a chimp or bonobo?
Nothing compared to the gap between mouse and humans.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by fearandloathing, posted 03-06-2011 10:37 AM fearandloathing has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 364 of 377 (608742)
03-13-2011 8:56 AM


Re: Intelligence Gap
I was hoping, before the closing of the thread, I'd get some response to my Message 33, culminating an exchange between Fearandloathing and me concerning the huge intelligence gap observed, relating to humans and other creatures. I alluded to evidence that throughout human history, mankind has ruled over the brute beasts as per Genesis.
No gap between other species even approaches the gap between humans and other creatures, relative to reasoning, creativity, logic, spiritual, control, travel, and cultural, etc.
I see this as evidence of design attested to by recorded history.
You can follow the short debate between us to follow it.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by fearandloathing, posted 03-13-2011 9:16 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 368 by jar, posted 03-13-2011 11:11 AM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 366 of 377 (608751)
03-13-2011 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 365 by fearandloathing
03-13-2011 9:16 AM


Re: Intelligence Gap
fearandloathing writes:
Buzsaw writes:
I was hoping, before the closing of the thread, I'd get some response to my Message 33, culminating an exchange between Fearandloathing and me concerning the huge intelligence gap observed, relating to humans and other creatures. I alluded to evidence that throughout human history, mankind has ruled over the brute beasts as per Genesis.
No gap between other species even approaches the gap between humans and other creatures, relative to reasoning, creativity, logic, spiritual, control, travel, and cultural, etc.
I see this as evidence of design attested to by recorded history.
You can follow the short debate between us to follow it.
I think everyone would agree with me when I said that the difference between a mouse and a chimp is far greater than us and a chimp, well most of us. Chimps can learn language, they use and fashion tools and have complex social groups. Similarities closer to man than to a mouse in intelligence.
LOL, Fearandloathing. When you cite evidence that chimps write books, build skyscrapers, worship in synagogues designed and built by them, capture, control and incarcerate humans in zoos designed and built by them for all chimps to observe, design craft to fly around the world and to the moon, plant, cultivate gardens and fields, create and use surgical instruments, do science, operate universities of learning design and build techy stuff like computers and manufacture instruments to play composed music in orchestras, etc, etc, get back to me.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by fearandloathing, posted 03-13-2011 9:16 AM fearandloathing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 367 by fearandloathing, posted 03-13-2011 11:11 AM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

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