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Author Topic:   evolution and the extinction of dinos
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 93 (607506)
03-04-2011 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Peter
03-04-2011 5:43 AM


Re: The fossil record
Peter writes:
Dr Adequate writes:
So can a species still be transitional even if it doesn't have an ancestral relationship to another species?
This is exactly why I avoid using the word "transitional". Even if something was direct ancestor, we'd probably never actually know. And most of them probably aren't, because the odds aren't in our favor there.
So we are really talking about species which show a potential for being intermediary, but are not necessarily direct decendants/antecedants?
Not actually a potential, more a fact. They do show traits that are intermediary.
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 22 by Peter, posted 03-04-2011 5:43 AM Peter has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Peter, posted 03-08-2011 8:52 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 25 of 93 (607614)
03-05-2011 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Buzsaw
03-05-2011 9:09 AM


Re: Ice Age Speculation & Conjecture
Buzsaw writes:
A read of this dino/ice age page is a read of a lot of lack of evidence. Speculation and conjecture by ice age advocates is all I see here. That sort of thing is disallowed in flood and Exodus threads where solid empirical evidence is an absolute requirement.
What is attributed to the alleged ice ages has been argued by creationists as explainable by the Noaic flood, of course, also involving some aspects of speculation and conjecture. Due to lack of empirical evidence, the anti-floodists claim that it has been absolutely falsified.
Once again Buz you are simply posting falsehoods.
First, the Biblical Flood has been refuted. Period. Anyone that claims there was a Biblical Flood is simply wrong.
Second, no one has ever explained how the Biblical Flood could produce the evidence we see related to glaciers.
Are you actually going to present some evidence in this case?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 31 of 93 (607643)
03-05-2011 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Buzsaw
03-05-2011 3:42 PM


Re: Ice Age Speculation & Conjecture
Buzsaw writes:
jar writes:
Are you actually going to present some evidence in this case?
No. Mine would require empirical evidence, whereas yours does not.
So you have no evidence.
Thought so.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 30 by Buzsaw, posted 03-05-2011 3:42 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Buzsaw, posted 03-05-2011 4:12 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 34 of 93 (607653)
03-05-2011 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Buzsaw
03-05-2011 4:12 PM


Re: Ice Age Speculation & Conjecture
Buzsaw writes:
jar writes:
Buzsaw writes:
jar writes:
Are you actually going to present some evidence in this case?
No. Mine would require empirical evidence, whereas yours does not.
So you have no evidence.
Thought so.
You're words; not mine. No evidence which creationists have ever presented has been acknowledged. Therefore, as I said, "no, I will not be repeating evidence.
Conjecture about an asteroid can be interpreted as supportive to the cause of the flood which implicates the demise of the dinos, which was implicated in the Genesis curse of the serpent/reptile kind.
No Buz, it can't. First the Biblical Flood has been refuted, it never happened. Claiming it happened is simply repeating falsehoods.
Second, an asteroid strike cannot be interpreted as supportive of the Biblical Flood because the myth tells us how that happened; it says it rained.
Third, there is nothing in the Genesis 2&3 curse of the serpent that can in anyway be connected to dinosaurs.
Fourth, there is NO connection to be found anywhere between the myth found in Genesis 2&3 and teh myth of the Biblical Flood.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 40 of 93 (607985)
03-08-2011 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Robert Byers
03-08-2011 4:57 AM


Robert Byers writes:
Its been a great gain for YEC creationism to have the impact thing arive to explain the great fauna/flora change in the world suddenly.
this creationist sees the k-t line as the flood line.
so what did for us is to demonstrate a instant die off and a dramatic and different recovery in a point in history.
We simply say this was the biblical flood.
A great die off and different recovery in fauna/flora.
The impact is simply misunderstood as to when it happened.
Please explain how a flood can put down a layer high in Iridium.
You are free of course, to continue to claim all the false nonsense you want.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 41 of 93 (607988)
03-08-2011 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Peter
03-08-2011 8:52 AM


Re: The fossil record
Peter writes:
I'm still a bit confused by this ... 'intermediary' or 'transitional' without being directly related ... is that what is considered the situation?
Surely the only way 'transitionals' represent evidence for evolution is if they ARE related in the antecedent/descendent sense?
Huh?
Sorry but that just sounds like word salad.
Transitional means showing intermediary traits.
Honestly, there is no need for any additional evidence FOR evolution, Evolution is as close to being proven as any science will ever be.
What transitional fossils help us understand are the details, the minutia.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 39 by Peter, posted 03-08-2011 8:52 AM Peter has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Peter, posted 03-08-2011 9:20 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 43 of 93 (608001)
03-08-2011 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Peter
03-08-2011 9:20 AM


Re: The fossil record
Peter writes:
jar writes:
Peter writes:
I'm still a bit confused by this ... 'intermediary' or 'transitional' without being directly related ... is that what is considered the situation?
Surely the only way 'transitionals' represent evidence for evolution is if they ARE related in the antecedent/descendent sense?
Huh?
Sorry but that just sounds like word salad.
Transitional means showing intermediary traits.
Honestly, there is no need for any additional evidence FOR evolution, Evolution is as close to being proven as any science will ever be.
What transitional fossils help us understand are the details, the minutia.
Sorry, it's probably because I'm a little confused.
What evidence (of anything related to evolution) do transitionals represent if they are NOT related in a pre-post sense?
Just on a side note: I didn't think we proove stuff at all in science -- I thought the aim was to not be able to refute it(?)
Read what I wrote. I said "Honestly, there is no need for any additional evidence FOR evolution, Evolution is as close to being proven as any science will ever be."
If you want to play silly word games do so with someone else. I left the kindergarten playground long ago.
Next you seem to be playing yet another word game.
"antecedent/descendent" and "pre-post" are not synonymous.
Transitional characteristics are import in understanding the details of evolution. A good example is the mammalian middle ear. Recent discoveries of a small chipmunk (I've always loved the little striped things) like critter that lived around 120 million years ago gave us some exciting information. Now mammals weren't something new 120 million years ago, they had already been around almost that long before. But this little chipmunk size critter had a strange but well preserved middle ear. That's unusual because little bones like those in the middle ear don't often get preserved.
Now Mao (I call him Mao even though his real name is Maotherium asiaticus) had a relatively primitive middle ear, partly reptilian, partly mammalian. We know that there were earlier mammals with a more mammalian middle ear. We don't know (and really don't much care) whether Mao was a direct ancestor of any living species.
So what did we learn? We learned that the evolution of the mammalian middle ear was not a straight line affair, that there were either several different branches, multiple examples of the trait evolving or the trait evolving and regressing.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 42 by Peter, posted 03-08-2011 9:20 AM Peter has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 50 of 93 (608182)
03-09-2011 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Peter
03-09-2011 8:57 AM


Re: The fossil record
What I hope you learned was that evolution is change over time, and not necessarily "antecedent/descendent" or "pre-post".
And no matter how much evidence you disregard ID will never be a viable model.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 47 by Peter, posted 03-09-2011 8:57 AM Peter has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 58 of 93 (608421)
03-10-2011 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Robert Byers
03-10-2011 2:25 AM


Robert Byers writes:
jar writes:
Robert Byers writes:
Its been a great gain for YEC creationism to have the impact thing arive to explain the great fauna/flora change in the world suddenly.
this creationist sees the k-t line as the flood line.
so what did for us is to demonstrate a instant die off and a dramatic and different recovery in a point in history.
We simply say this was the biblical flood.
A great die off and different recovery in fauna/flora.
The impact is simply misunderstood as to when it happened.
Please explain how a flood can put down a layer high in Iridium.
You are free of course, to continue to claim all the false nonsense you want.
I don't know if the iridium is that widespread. in fact it demands a layer over top of rocks created after it was laid. this alone limits how common it is.
Options could be, for those areas with it, of sorting as a last act from the flood year which would include the remains of massive volcanoism.
Another option is that it was part of incoming of the over top layer. I mean volcano action being a great part of the formation or at least stirring about during the rock strata being created in episodes some centuries after the flood.
Iridium is uncommon in normal processes but not big upheaval ones as creationism models would talk about.
We know that you are ignorant, but that can be cured.
There is nothing in the Biblical Flood myths about volcanism, so stop misrepresenting the Bible. You have read the Bible haven't you?
There is nothing in the Biblical Flood myths about any rock creation, so stop misrepresenting the Bible. You have read the Bible haven't you?
There is nothing in the Biblical Flood myths about sorting, so stop misrepresenting the Bible. You have read the Bible haven't you?
In addition, the Biblical Flood has been totally refuted and anyone that continues to claim it happened is simply spreading falsehoods and lies.
Finally, the Biblical Flood myths have NOTHING to do with the topic and are just another attempt to palm the pea, misdirect the audience and create attractive rabbit holes.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 73 of 93 (614717)
05-06-2011 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Peter
05-04-2011 4:38 PM


Peter writes:
Oh right ... re-read Gen 6 ... so he decided to wipe the lot out, then took a liking to Noah, and let him and his family and two of everything live ... right.
Very whimsical!
It all depends on which one of the Biblical Flood myths you want to credit.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Peter, posted 05-04-2011 4:38 PM Peter has replied

Replies to this message:
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