Life without God

It must now be around 3 years now since I fully deconverted from evangelical Christianity - I guess I'm now a 6 on the Dawkins Scale, having spent much of my life as a 1. I still catch myself in old habits from time to time, but last night was a bit different...I'd had just a couple down the pub and then walked the mile or so up the hill to my house. On arriving home, I discovered that I had lost my wallet - not good. Already tired from the climb, I grabbed a torch, apologised to wife for being even later for dinner, and set off back down the hill, retracing my steps.I spent a good ten minutes searching the bit of field I had crossed, and found myself feeling the urge to ask God for assistance. This is not uncommon, and makes me smile. It was precisely this pathetic intercessory prayer that helped with my deconversion: if I really believed there was a deity willing and able to materially affect reality on the back of my prayers, how could I live with myself if I did not spend every moment of my life praying for the uncountable situations of sorrow and suffering occuring at every moment around the world?Anyway, it was no-where to be found on the field, nor anywhere on the pavement all the way down the hill, and I arrived back at the pub. No one had handed it in, so leaving with the comiserations of the regulars, I started back home. Back at the field, I once again criss-crossed it , searching in vain. Finally, accepting that it was gone, I made a last desperate search over by the fence, knowing full well that I hadn't been over that way.And there it was, gleaming black in the torchlight, lying in the grass right next to the fence.My first thought was to thank God. My second thought was to ask myself what I was doing. I stopped, wondering what to do. I had this overwhelming sense of gratitude, but suddenly I had nowhere to channel it; I could hardly be pleased with myself. It was all very very odd. Then slowly there formed this oxymoronic sense of fulfilled emptyness. The stars were shining, I raised my hands to the heavens, and shouted "everything just *IS* and I LOVE IT".I was smiling all the way back to the house, where-as the couple in the dark car, parked up on the field, were almost certainly thinking "what a dick"...

I was "born-again" for about as long as you have been alive, Mikey. And wasn't it Satan who encouraged our faith to be child-like, or was it the other guy?Anyway, try and convince yourself that what you say applies to me. I can tell that it makes you feel better, and that is no bad thing. But you are so very desperate for you to be right about me and you are so very very wrong.But keep believing that I really was a very weak Christian all along - that while I witnessed and evangelised at school, uni, work, door-to-ddor; while I led worship at church, CU, house group, Vineyard, Spring Harvest; while I taught at study group, retreat, life group; through all of this, my faith and walk with God was embryonic, and doomed to failure. Keep believing that Mikey, and you'll get through. You'll be ok.

Yes, I get it totally But you are correct, in that those things don't matter a damn. I mention them only so that you realise the world I inhabited was the same world you inhabit. I was a Christian for the simple reason that it was the Truth. One day I woke up, and realised that it wasn't...

You masy ask, but I have no idea given that I do not have that desire. I think you are confused in thinking that I was making "use of a common figure of speech used in situations of happiness and relief". I was actually repeating my old behaviour of directing gratitude and thanks towards a very real (to me) entity with which I had an ongoing relationship and natural discourse. Hopefully you now realise that there was no aversion, merely a confusion followed by amusement at my "conversation" with a non-existent entity.

It was actually one of my back-up diving lamps - not something I would really refer to as a "flashlight". But yes, in English English (and according to Wiki, in any English speaking area outside N.A.), a torch is any type of hand held electrical light. My headmounted illumination for speleology is refered to as a lamp: a miner's lamp, caving lamp, etc.

Yes, I know. It is wonderful. Millions of times Had me on my knees crying my heart out on many occasions. More times than I can remember. Again, how many examples do you want? Yes, and as new ones arose, I would go through the process again. Ever looked at or gone through the "Freedom in Christ" course by Neil Anderson? Completely. I agree totally, And that was me 100%. Yes, it is. Its effect is mind-blowing, both in myself and the many others I have seen be touched by it. We may even know some of the same people... the number of connections that criss-cross the evangelical world. Yep, been healed myself, and seen countless other healings. Very true. I pray in tongues, and have delivered many words of knowledge and wisdom. I know exactly what you mean, and that's a great description.Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

So? Where did I express that I was disappointed in the outcome? I was stressing that the needs of the world should justify a 24/7 attitude to intercessory prayer. Where did I make any comment regarding the outcome of that prayer? yep, it has to you because it is the only way you will ever get away from the fact that the Christian god is a fucking waste of space, and Christians have to ensure they have a way to explain away the complete absence of this god's existence outside of their own headspace. Ensure that he is answering prayer on the timescale of natural occurance and all is fine Iano, the whole evangelical Christian movement is designed around ensuring that this god's complete non-existence is completely explicable. Of we don't expect obvious and large-scale answers to prayer. This god does not exist. Yep, Iano, convince yourself that that is how I approached my concept of god. The lengths you guys will go to convince yourselves that "true" Christians don't deconvert. It is truly pathetic.Us (as I was) born-again evangelical Christians would never think to approach God with a "shopping list" of our personal desires. But we do look at suffering around us and in amongst our daily conversations with our personal god, we do ask him to intercede, in his own way, in those situations.Those "Christians" like you, that look around at suffering but simply regard it as part of the fallen world and unworthy of mention to your god, are known as wankers. Yep, he doesn't have me troubling him anymore, reminding him of just how fucked up his world has become. I'm sure he's much happier hanging out with you in ignorance. Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

Dawn, you are a sad waste of a life... come back when you've grown up a bit. We'll still be here.

Hi GDR, been a while since we've chatted. Yes, that was essentially my outlook for the few years leading up to my "deconversion". Yes, it is an interesting conundrum, where the real deity of Christianity becomes the Bible itself. There is this unfounded assumption (naive readings of Timothy not withstanding) that the Bible has divine properties, regardless of its blatent human authorship and redaction. I think that is very healthy approach. Simply that as I finally removed the last layers of inconsistency and obvious bullshit from the Christian god, I was left with a simple deist entity. I never had much use for such a concept: while a Christian I would often point out that I did not see a need for God to have the Universe, just that the simple fact was that we had both. And so here I am, back as an atheist as I was at age 13. Well, I was never big on humility - but as Meatloaf so wisely said, two out of three ain't bad...

yeah, all us cavedivers are terrified of it... we're famous for it!

Oh, the joy of Western world Christianity. There's nothing better than spending time getting to know a god that far more appreciates my time with it, than bothering to consider the four kids dying of starvation every minute. In which case I am a failed fool - but will gladly keep trying to acheive the status of fool, even if I know I'll never manage it. Far far better in my mind than your sad sociopathic attitude.Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.