What IS evidence of design? (CLOSING STATEMENTS ONLY)

So if I understand your line of thought then a mouse has no significant difference in intelligence or ability to reason compared to a chimp or bonobo?

I think the honeycomb may be simply the best arrangement to utilize most storage space possible. Its also strong, but I don't feel it it designed by the bee or god. With that line of thought you could argue the beaver-dam and few other things too.You can wiki honeycomb and follow the links to Archimedes lab and see some interesting stuff and even a way the design could be better in theory but in practice the difference is negligible.Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

I guess we would have to agree on what design means to this discussion...wiki wasn't very helpful.. lol.Maybe someone smarter than I has a definition that would be acceptable?? I shall look a little further.

LOL...well there are many too choose from. I will put some thought into it. Maybe you see one that you think is more relevant?
I work in construction/maintenance < plumbing , pipefitting ect.., so I am biased. I veiw design as when I walk into a new house...look at prints and then lay-out where stuff goes. I have to design that system to work well and meet code. There are other considerations such as doing it cost effective ie...least number of fittings and pipe. Then there are considerations of ease of use or access for maintainence, and of couse what the customer wants. After all that the end product is my design based on many different reqirements, but rarely do I have to put it in the form of a blueprint.
I am not sure I can say the beaver is not simply working on instinct.

I honestly cant say beavers don't design at this point.I will say that it is not a design process that uses engineering in a method to get a end result. As a child I built many forts and a tree house using trial and error. I didn't have no understanding of how much load a piece of wood could withstand, but common sense and erring on the side of caution worked well for me then. By some definitions I was still actively designing.Could the use of tools , in order to complete a design be appropriate? Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

I will answer myself...lol....sign of mental instability or not???Tool use means nothing. I can design and build a shelter with no tools...sticks vines and leaves maybe...snow cave ect...Maybe in this case an argument can be made by how the materials are utilized?? Most designs will utilize materials available in an orderly and efficient way as to reduce waste and improve efficiency of said design or ease of constuction...whether it be labor or energy used.

This in my mind seems to be the true question...what is the accepted definition of design to be used in this discusion?? And your last sentence is confusing...seems a "no" should be added after "is"...?? LOL although confusing me is no great feat.

Ah...yes...well I am glad you posted...Very good. I have taught many people who are competent plumbers, but never really understood why they had to do things a certain way. They know what the code says but don't understand the reason for it.Couldn't it be said that animals build structures based on what works with no understanding of why it works??

With my current line of thought then it could be said that these structures are a product of evolution and natural selection?? I think it does??

Exactly why I havent posted anymore on this...although I find it fascinating. I think animal engineering could be an interesting topic on its own. Maybe I will try a new topic again based on this.

Looks like crystal of some sort...maybe table salt magnified?? You cant really examine it only by looking a single picture and determine. there is no perspective of size for one. It would need to be handled at the least in order to see tool marks or have many photos taken in a more scientific way.No way to say based on one picture, LOL maybe its art in the form of a picture of a natural crystal, if so then yes it, the photo, was designed.

It is the USS Shiloh...Ticonderoga class cruiser ...built at bath iron works. Commissioned in 92. Was part of pacific fleet and forward deployed in Japan...She is a guided missile cruiser. This info is little old, last year and she may have re-assigned to 5th or another fleet??Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

see msg 353...warships .com has lots of info...or just google USS Shiloh...Also Cole is a destroyer...DDG. Shiloh is a cruiser..CGWhile I am off topic Ill finish this and post no more on it.USS Shiloh is part of 7th fleet currently. The panel you see on her superstructure are Phased array radar...similar to Cobra Dane radar. With current versions of the standard missile she carries, intercepting an inbound ballistic target is possible. She was used in test doing so in the not to distant past.Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

I think everyone would agree with me when I said that the difference between a mouse and a chimp is far greater than us and a chimp, well most of us. Chimps can learn language, they use and fashion tools and have complex social groups. Similarities closer to man than to a mouse in intelligence.

you do same thing to everyone, you twist their words or your use of English differs so greatly from mine that no meaningful debate could take place. Some great apes have tested with an IQ of 70+. Yes I know these test vary from researcher to researcher, but all would agree the Great apes are intelligent, JUST GOOGLE IT!! Lots of CREDIBLE research along with plenty of ID sites spreading their view on it also. You have taken a simple statement and twisted it around. All of what you said is a politicians answer.You side step with other irrelevant questions?? I could say more but you bore me with "the party line of creation, you cant prove none of it....THATS WHY ITS CALLED FAITH AND NOT FACT.By the way, how many of the things mankind can do have you done or are capable of doing,,performed surgery??composed a song??play an instrument or made one,LOL Yes this is going no where and has nothing to do with anything...kind of like your statement. Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.