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Author Topic:   On Transitional Species (SUMMATION MESSAGES ONLY)
Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4390 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 258 of 314 (608404)
03-10-2011 5:12 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by Taq
03-08-2011 11:41 AM


Re: Kind of The Point ....
no lie.
you think your doing biological connections in studying fossils but your not.
All your doing is studying casts of former creatures. Then after a geological presumption is accepted that they are from many different ages you then claim that evolution over these ages shows a succession from a-B.
All it shows is a bunch of creatures. If they were buried all at once and simply there was segregation in the burying from different water flows then all ones looking at is a diversity like in the amazon or amongst the cichlid fishes.
The biological conclusions of the fossil record are in fact geological ones. There is no biology going on . Biology is about the biology of a living being. A cast of one is bad enough. but conclusions based on a succession of casts is simply not worthy of the prestige of biological research.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Taq, posted 03-08-2011 11:41 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Taq, posted 03-10-2011 11:18 AM Robert Byers has replied
 Message 271 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-10-2011 2:01 PM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 272 by bluescat48, posted 03-11-2011 2:07 AM Robert Byers has not replied

  
Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4390 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 259 of 314 (608405)
03-10-2011 5:15 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by Taq
03-08-2011 11:42 AM


Re: Exceptio Probat Regulam
Taq writes:
I understand the radar genes for both dolphins and bats is the same.
It isn't. Dolphins use a fatty melon to focus soundwaves. Bats do not. Also, radar uses electromagnetic frequencies. Bats and dolphins use sound waves.
further bats is rightly in the bird section as it is only about a flying division.
Are house flies in the same section?
It made the news about the genes for sonar being the same for bats/dolphins.
Flies fly but really are just ground creatures. All insects are.
The author of scripture expects one to understand that being defined by flight is the division. Its not about kinds however.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Taq, posted 03-08-2011 11:42 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Wounded King, posted 03-10-2011 6:04 AM Robert Byers has replied
 Message 268 by Taq, posted 03-10-2011 11:22 AM Robert Byers has not replied

  
Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4390 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 273 of 314 (609022)
03-16-2011 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by Wounded King
03-10-2011 6:04 AM


Re: Prestin -changeo
Well they said genes were the same on important points about sonar for bats and whales etc.
this still is a great point for like mechanism equals like genetic score and so its a later adaptation and its from innate triggers in the body and not wild mutation chances.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Wounded King, posted 03-10-2011 6:04 AM Wounded King has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-16-2011 3:48 AM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 293 by Wounded King, posted 03-17-2011 11:31 AM Robert Byers has replied

  
Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4390 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 274 of 314 (609024)
03-16-2011 2:33 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by Dr Jack
03-10-2011 7:18 AM


Re: Exceptio Probat Regulam
The point is that humans show how creatures did these things instantly at some point in the past.
its just obvious. bats simply being instictive creatures took more easily into their body systems what humans only flirt with.
I'm sure the mechanism for bat/whale adaptation , instant, to sonar will be demonstrated one day.
no need for unlikely time to pass by.
Sonar is no big deal.
I think all creatures and man can develop the same ability as bats etc.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Dr Jack, posted 03-10-2011 7:18 AM Dr Jack has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by Taq, posted 03-16-2011 11:39 AM Robert Byers has not replied

  
Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4390 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 275 of 314 (609025)
03-16-2011 2:42 AM
Reply to: Message 263 by Dr Jack
03-10-2011 7:34 AM


Re: Kind of The Point ....
Mr Jack writes:
Robert Byers writes:
evolution relys a great deal on the fossil record. Without it evolution fails.
Again. Not true. You see, unlike you, I've actually studied evolution, and while the fossil record is used it is far from the major source of evidence. About the only exception to that I can think of is the bird-dinosaur link.
I don't see evolution being greatly based on biological research.
I mean by biology actual research of living life.
That can only be because you haven't looked. There has been a very large amount of research looking at confirming and analysising the theoretical side of Evolution by experimental biology; and vast amounts of work establishing the evolutionary relationships between organisms based on their genetics. This is, in fact, now the primary way of doing so; replacing the previous method based on morphology (which also looked at living organisms primarily).
Even Darwin's Origin - where modern evolutionary theory began - barely draws on fossils as evidence.
Your wrong.
Darwin INSISTED that without the presumptions of geology a reader was wasting his time reading his books on evolution.
Time is essential for the claims of evolution turing a ant into a armidillo.
if the fossil record did not show time sequences and so claimed biological sequences evolutionism would hardly have anything to talk about regarding evidence.
Read any school book on the evidences and they emphasive the fossil record as proof.
lets say its bout 55% of the "evidence' for evolution.
The genetic claims are very recent and morphology claims always included the claims of progression from fossils.
I think i'm right here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Dr Jack, posted 03-10-2011 7:34 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-16-2011 3:41 AM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 282 by Taq, posted 03-16-2011 11:41 AM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 284 by Blue Jay, posted 03-16-2011 1:39 PM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 291 by Dr Jack, posted 03-17-2011 9:38 AM Robert Byers has replied

  
Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4390 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 276 of 314 (609026)
03-16-2011 2:56 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by Taq
03-10-2011 11:18 AM


Re: Kind of The Point ....
Taq writes:
no lie.
Yes it is Robert. Comparing the anatomy of different species is biology. To get my zoology degree I had to take a class called Comparative Vertebrate Anatomy.
you think your doing biological connections in studying fossils but your not.
We are directly testing the theory of evolution, as I have pointed out multiple times now. Testing a theory within biology with biological observations is called DOING BIOLOGY.
Then after a geological presumption is accepted that they are from many different ages you then claim that evolution over these ages shows a succession from a-B.
The mixture of features in fossils is not determined by their age. Archaeopteryx, for example, is transitional because it has dinosaur features not found in modern birds and bird features not found in dinosaurs. This statement is NOT BASED ON ANY GEOLOGIC "PRESUMPTIONS".
If they were buried all at once and simply there was segregation in the burying from different water flows then all ones looking at is a diversity like in the amazon or amongst the cichlid fishes.
Instead of inventing fantasies why don't you actually provide evidence for your claims.
Biology is about the biology of a living being.
You are aware that fossils were once alive, aren't you?
The operative word is ONCE. if not alive and stripped down to mere bone/cast of bone one has no biology anymore.
biology is about the glorious biological systems of living life. its not about mere remains from simple bone creations. The creatures are dead because of the ending of biological systems and their complete decay.
You are not doing biology in studying fossils.
You are simply drawing conclusions about former biological systems located in individual creatures.
comparing anatomy, by way of fossils, is just comparing a special case of bone material remains. its not biology or zoology .
Why do you think it is?
biology demand tools and opportunity to examine actual biological life.
evolution has never done this relative to its great claims.
Casts of skeletons of former life in rock strata claims of progressive time intervals can not invoke the prestige of biologists who deal with life systems before our eyes.
This is a logical flaw of evolution in any claim of using biological evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Taq, posted 03-10-2011 11:18 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-16-2011 3:42 AM Robert Byers has replied
 Message 280 by Taq, posted 03-16-2011 11:36 AM Robert Byers has replied
 Message 283 by Coyote, posted 03-16-2011 12:15 PM Robert Byers has replied

  
Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4390 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 286 of 314 (609146)
03-17-2011 1:15 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by Dr Adequate
03-16-2011 3:42 AM


Re: Kind of The Point ....
Yet its not biology. Its just questions about some critter.
Biology is about a serious investigation into actual fantastic living organisms.
It only has the prestige of biological investigation if it actually investigates biological process and results.
Anything to do with fossils is about conclusions of a biological nature without biological investigation.
Its gotta have life tissue/organs/being on it. it can't be about casts of minor bone details.
Biology isn't being done where geology and casts therein are the only things to be studied.
This has been a great flaw of evolution to usurp a actual science's name when all it is but just a historical subject.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-16-2011 3:42 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-17-2011 2:01 AM Robert Byers has not replied

  
Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4390 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 287 of 314 (609147)
03-17-2011 1:28 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by Taq
03-16-2011 11:36 AM


Re: Kind of The Point ....
The frog makes my case. Whats being dissected is a recently live creature and so its actual biological elements are still here. its not just a bunch of trivial bones.
The glory of biology and the power that evolution tries to say it has to turn a bug into a bigger bug or buffalo is what the prestige of biological research is about. bones are a trivial detail dealing with linited conclusions. certainly nothing to do with the origin of creatures without presumptions first being accepted.
come on.
Biology is about life. nOt a few bones without any life.
in fact when the creature lives i would say bones are not alive like the actual moving organism.
Evolution is not based on biological research but merely on very secondary results of biological processes.
this is why it doesn't prove its case or accept its case is proven false,.
Evolution ain't doing no biology.
most of it is founded on geology, raw anatomy, and today specuilative genetic concepts.
Without the geology or the opposition of geology evolution is simply untenable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Taq, posted 03-16-2011 11:36 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by Taq, posted 03-17-2011 11:06 AM Robert Byers has replied

  
Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4390 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 288 of 314 (609148)
03-17-2011 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 283 by Coyote
03-16-2011 12:15 PM


Re: Kind of The Point ....
Coyote writes:
You are not doing biology in studying fossils.
You are simply drawing conclusions about former biological systems located in individual creatures.
comparing anatomy, by way of fossils, is just comparing a special case of bone material remains. its not biology or zoology.
You are wrong in everything you say here.
And yes, I am a bone expert. From bones I can tell a great deal about the individuals and how they lived. Age, sex, height, build, pathological conditions, injuries, diet, and sometimes even probable cause of death can all be told from bones. Using DNA we can tell a great deal about lineages and relationships. Specialists can tell a whole lot more than just the basics I've mentioned above.
And that information, in turn, can be used to study anthropology, paleodemography, migration patterns, and a host of other specialized fields--including aspects of biology and zoology.
(You are trying to substitute fervent religious belief for real-world knowledge. It isn't working. See tagline.)
bones can tell only details of a living creature. Yet its not telling about the actual biological reality of a creature.
biology is about living things. not teeth and bones.
In these ideas evolution must demonstrate actual use of biology and not mere casts of biological agents.
A picture of a car isn't the same thing as a great machine as the car.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Coyote, posted 03-16-2011 12:15 PM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by MacCanuck, posted 03-17-2011 1:00 PM Robert Byers has replied

  
Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4390 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 295 of 314 (609764)
03-22-2011 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by Dr Jack
03-17-2011 9:38 AM


Re: Kind of The Point ....
Morphology lines includes living creatures but fossil creatures are the great emphasis when telling everyone evolution explains biology.
To diminish the need of the fossil record, and so a geological point, to justify evolution is not what most people would understand.
Again Darwin insisted that his idea was worthless unless the presumption of geological time and fossils within in it was not first accepted by a rader of his books.
Anyways all evolution eduction is always about the progression of creatures by way of fossils. From big catergories of divisions of life. Primitive to high. Right across the ages with this order or that.
It is a thing to run from where geology has the importance it has in a unrelated subject like biology.
Biology can not be based on a foreign subject for its claims.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by Dr Jack, posted 03-17-2011 9:38 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by Coyote, posted 03-22-2011 10:52 PM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 301 by Dr Jack, posted 03-23-2011 5:26 AM Robert Byers has not replied

  
Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4390 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 296 of 314 (609765)
03-22-2011 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by Taq
03-17-2011 11:06 AM


Re: Kind of The Point ....
The frog thing is a hopping good point for me.
i'm saying that trivial casts of mere bone structures of creatures is not a study in the living life systems that we call biology.
Frogs being dissected is biology as its tissue substance is what is being dissected. if this was not so then in biology class frog bones from semesters past could be brought in boxes with like biological knowledge gleaned from them as a cold slimy one.
evolutionism has had a logical flaw in its claims that it is a biological study. The great claims of progression have not been from biology but geology. Evolution may deal with some attempts at some actual biological points but still its about pickaxes and blowing dirt.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by Taq, posted 03-17-2011 11:06 AM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by Coyote, posted 03-22-2011 10:58 PM Robert Byers has not replied

  
Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4390 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 297 of 314 (609766)
03-22-2011 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by Wounded King
03-17-2011 11:31 AM


Re: Prestin -changeo
Well this was what i read from those who study the dna of these creatures sonar ability. they said there was a connection in its makeup.
I can't get into it. Yet the press reports allow me to say it follows that sonar ability is a late adaption based on common laws of biology triggering innate abilities to adapt mechanisms.
common program and not unlikelyness of mutations and selection.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Wounded King, posted 03-17-2011 11:31 AM Wounded King has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by Wounded King, posted 03-23-2011 6:50 AM Robert Byers has not replied

  
Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4390 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 300 of 314 (609776)
03-23-2011 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by MacCanuck
03-17-2011 1:00 PM


Re: Kind of The Point ....
Mechanis and anatomy are fine to tel details of creatures. Yet its not biology as biology is understood. Biology is about actual living tissue and great complexity thereof. Bones are just what they are. Harden calcium, I think,.
to have the prestige of biology and so to make claims of biological origins and mechanisms thereto one must be dealing in a living machine.
Evolutionary biology is in fact geological musings that make biological assertions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by MacCanuck, posted 03-17-2011 1:00 PM MacCanuck has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4390 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 307 of 314 (610072)
03-26-2011 1:54 AM


I think one does summation here.
My part here ended in the subject of how important to evolutionary conclusions was the fossil record. Whereupon I stressed this meant that a biological conclusion was greatly founded on geological conclusions. So I insisted this nullify's the biological claim of evolutionary ideas as biological in research and so prestige.
Everyone saw indedd this as a flaw of evolution and so tried to tell me the fossil/geology was a minor or less matter in the case made for evolution.
Not what I ever saw or read.
They beat a drum about fossils, fossils, fossils, and how it proves evolution was true and how conclusions of the story of biological evolution are discovered.
Darwin himself insisted that without the geological presumptions of great time passing there was no reason to read his books.
AMEN.
his ideas don'r work without the geology and so i say they are not actually biological ideas in the main.
A flaw in the whole structure of evolution has been its non biological foundations. Its been a wrong line of reasoning that hid the lack of biological substance.

  
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