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Author Topic:   How Does Republican Platform Help Middle Class?
Taq
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Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
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(2)
Message 1 of 440 (610267)
03-28-2011 8:56 PM


The title says it all. How does the Republican platform help the middle class? How do major tax cuts to the top 5% of wage earners help the middle class? How does cutting taxes and cutting social programs help? How does repealing a law that prevents insurance companies from revoking insurance for sick kids help the middle class? How does banning abortions help the middle class? How does the fight against labor unions improve the middle class? How does the defunding of Planned Parenthood and the EPA help the middle class? How does a reduction in social security and medicare help the middle class?
What confuses me is how people like me (lower middle class) benefit from the laws and reforms that Republicans want to put in place. Can someone show me the light?
Note to moderator: I would think that this would fit in Coffee House. Even though it is unmoderated I still think a little peer review is called for.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Coyote, posted 03-28-2011 10:23 PM Taq has replied
 Message 29 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-29-2011 12:04 AM Taq has not replied
 Message 108 by hooah212002, posted 03-31-2011 2:14 PM Taq has replied
 Message 144 by marc9000, posted 04-02-2011 9:46 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 5 of 440 (610272)
03-28-2011 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Coyote
03-28-2011 10:23 PM


Re: Short sighted?
How does raising taxes and expanding social programs help when we are already more trillions of dollars in debt than even our grandchildren can pay?
How does a balanced budget help grandchildren get health care after they lose their health insurance because they got sick? How does a federal balanced budget keep middle class families from filing bankruptcy because the bread winner had a heart attack at 55? How can we not afford 300 million dollars to fund Planned Parenthood for reproductive choices for middle class families but we can afford 300 million dollars to bomb the living fuck out of the Libyan army for a couple of weeks (although this isn't Republican specific, but hopefully you get the gist)? Why is it more important that people like Donald Trump be able to have a few more million in the bank but less important to take care of the needs of the elderly who aren't able to work?
The overarching question is why should middle class families vote for Republicans when more of the tax burden is moved to the middle class while they get fewer benefits out of it?

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
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Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 7 of 440 (610274)
03-28-2011 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Coyote
03-28-2011 10:46 PM


Re: Short sighted?
Sorry to have to break this news to you, but the government does not create or produce anything. The most it can do is take money from those who do produce and create, add a huge overhead, and then spend that money--wasting much of it on things that are more often contrary to the free market system.
Then why do countries with social medicine pay way less per patient for better care compared to the American health care system?
Socialism is not the answer to our problems. How long do you think the folks who actually create and produce things will continue to do so when most of what they create and produce is taken away by force and given to those who do neither? That's the flaw in your system.
So kick grandma to the curb? Take away Medicare and burden a young family with either monumental insurance premiums or massive health care bills to keep grandma alive?

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Taq
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Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 10 of 440 (610277)
03-28-2011 11:07 PM


I don't want this to be a "bash the Republicans" thread, per se. Although I do not see the rationale behind the entire Republican platform there are planks I can agree with. For example, I do lean more towards gun rights and and a sensible budget (although our vision of a sensible budget does differ). I can see how those in the upper tax brackets are strongly Republican. That makes sense given the Republican philosophy. What baffles me is why the lower and middle class would vote Republican when their policies seem so detrimental to the lower and middle class.
Like I said, show me the light. If you can demonstrate to me that giving huge tax breaks to the top 2% of earners and spending massive amounts of money to bomb other countries while cutting social programs and increasing class sizes in public elementary schools will actually help the middle class then do it. I will be very impressed.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by hooah212002, posted 03-28-2011 11:14 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
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Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 12 of 440 (610280)
03-28-2011 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Jon
03-28-2011 11:01 PM


Re: It Takes More than Buzwords...
Who in the fuck gives a rat's ass about the God damned 'free market' system?
There is a lot to be said for a regulated free market (which seems to be a bit of an oxymoron). There needs to be protections in place for labor and environmental impacts. From what I have seen, Republicans want to remove those protections. They even balk at raising the minimum wage to levels that would allow for a modicum of respect for the those who have the will to work instead of living off the dole.
At the same time, competition can drive effeciency and innovation. There are positive aspects as long as we can control the negative aspects.
LOL. Care to back this up in any meaningful way?
I know. That one took me aback too. If Republicans are so against socialism and the products of government perhaps they should stay off of those socialist roads they take to work and stick to the private ones.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Jon, posted 03-28-2011 11:01 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
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Taq
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Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 13 of 440 (610281)
03-28-2011 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by hooah212002
03-28-2011 11:14 PM


I think it was the Micheal Moore flick "Capitalism, A Love Story" that addressed this. It is seemingly because of the "american dream". Everyone has the notion that if they work hard enough, they too can have it all, thanks to this wonderful thing we call capitalism. So when they DO finally become the rich fuck of their dreams, Uncle Sam will be good to them. The only thing is: the american dream is a sham. If you weren't born on Wall Street, you don't get to Wall Street.
As much as I appreciate the spotlight that Moore can shine on issues that need attention I just wish it wasn't Moore. His movies are like a fleck of gold in a mound of dog shit.
My own experience is that families just want to not worry. Growing up I saw proud, hard working husbands on farms and ranches avoid hospitals and die young because they didn't want to bankrupt their family. Republicans want to perpetuate this system, and then base their rationale on the idea that socialism is for lazy people like Coyote did above. Even worse, they want to make the system worse by doing away with state laws that protect health insurance customers by allowing health insurance companies to sell across state lines allowing them to choose the state with the fewest consumer protections. That is the Republican version of health care reform. I can see why this benefits the rich and health insurance investors, but how does this help middle class Americans? Can't figure it out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by hooah212002, posted 03-28-2011 11:14 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Jon, posted 03-28-2011 11:36 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 17 by Coyote, posted 03-28-2011 11:37 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 18 by hooah212002, posted 03-28-2011 11:38 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 20 of 440 (610288)
03-28-2011 11:40 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Coyote
03-28-2011 11:34 PM


Re: Socialism?
If you can't see the difference between these two concepts then you are probably a socialist who thinks that you can keep taking from the productive forever, and get away with it.
What matters is what you get out of it. If I am paying 500 dollars a month to a health insurance company and get limited health care when I can pay 200 dollars a month in extra taxes and get much better health care wouldn't I be better off under a socialist plan?
What does the middle class get out of Republican policies? Even under Republican policies there are still taxes (i.e. money be taken away from you forcibly).
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Coyote, posted 03-28-2011 11:48 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 26 of 440 (610294)
03-28-2011 11:54 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Coyote
03-28-2011 11:46 PM


Re: Socialism?
You don't want the economy grown and jobs created?
What do you want, the nanny state to care for you, cradle to grave?
And what are you willing to give up to get that?
Why can't we have social programs and a growing economy? Why does a growing economy require us to fire teachers at public schools while giving multimillion dollar CEO's a tax break, as well as the companies they work for? Other countries with social health care have had booming economies, so why can't we do it?

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Taq
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Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 27 of 440 (610295)
03-28-2011 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Coyote
03-28-2011 11:48 PM


Re: Socialism?
No. Because somebody has to pay that $300 difference.
Yes, those who are better able to afford that increase. If they don't like it then they can take a lower wage and pay less in taxes.

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
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Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 33 of 440 (610303)
03-29-2011 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Dr Adequate
03-29-2011 12:06 AM


Re: Socialism?
No, because socialized health care is, for obvious reasons, more efficient.
Just to drive this point home, check out this page.
In 2007 Americans paid 6k per capita on health care (public and private combined). Countries I would consider on par economically with socialized health care (in US dollars):
UK = 2.5k
Canada = 3.1k
France = 3k
Germany = 3.1k
Anyone see a trend?
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 34 of 440 (610304)
03-29-2011 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Coyote
03-29-2011 12:18 AM


Re: Socialism?
Right up to the point where you have to wait six months to a year for a procedure that you can now get in weeks.
More propaganda? Recycling myths is not helping your case. How about Americans who don't even have access to health care except through ER's?

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 40 of 440 (610312)
03-29-2011 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Coyote
03-29-2011 12:45 AM


Re: Socialism?
Moving to Canada for their health care?
Or Cuba? I hear they're the best! Michael Moore told me that.
What policies are the Republicans putting forward that would reduce the price of health care for middle class americans? If none, why should middle class americans vote for Republicans?

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
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Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 43 of 440 (610317)
03-29-2011 2:08 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Coyote
03-29-2011 12:18 AM


Re: Socialism?
Argentina used to be a very productive country, now it serves as a lesson in socialist economy--for those who can learn from such lessons.
Sorry to reply to the same post twice, but being the author of the OP brings unearned perks.
I actually checked on the economic growth in Argentina. As it turns out, they are booming right now. They are ranked 18th worldwide for economic growth for 2010 with a projected increase in GDP of around 7.5% adjusted for inflation. The US is ranked 134th and tied with that uber-socialist country Switzerland at 2.7% growth. I guess we really don't have to cry for Argentina after all.
CIA factbook found here
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 56 of 440 (610421)
03-29-2011 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Jon
03-29-2011 1:15 PM


Re: What is it Good For...?
So far there has been only one example of how the Republican platform will help the middle class. By lowering taxes for the rich and doing away with social programs those of us in the middle class don't have to listen to the rich complain about taxes.
Are there any other benefits that can be cited?
ABE: I don't know why I linked this to Jon's message. Just ignore the reply chain.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Rahvin, posted 03-30-2011 12:54 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
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Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 59 of 440 (610503)
03-30-2011 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Rahvin
03-30-2011 12:54 PM


Re: What is it Good For...?
What I find particularly disappointing is how little the Democrat platform actually seeks to help the middle class.
Going back to the period where Dems were trying to pass the Affordable Care Act, I remember many of them stating outright that they would much rather see a single payer system. However, they admitted that supporting such a bill would be political suicide which is completely true. Even the baby steps towards a more equitable health care system that are found in the ACA that passed probably cost the Dems seats.
So why is this? From what I have seen the Republicans are able to spin reality in their favor. When you actually look at Republican policies there is nothing that that even remotely helps the middle class, and yet they are able to get a lot of votes from teh middle class. Why is that? It is because Republicans create a boogeyman that is even scarier than their policies. They are able to portray Dems as evil communists who want to force abortions on you while preventing you from going to church. Oh, and take your guns away too. Don't forget that. They tell the "big lie" and get away with it.

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