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Author Topic:   How Does Republican Platform Help Middle Class?
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2124 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 3 of 440 (610270)
03-28-2011 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taq
03-28-2011 8:56 PM


Short sighted?
How does cutting taxes and cutting social programs help?
How does raising taxes and expanding social programs help when we are already more trillions of dollars in debt than even our grandchildren can pay?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taq, posted 03-28-2011 8:56 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by jar, posted 03-28-2011 10:34 PM Coyote has replied
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2124 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 6 of 440 (610273)
03-28-2011 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by jar
03-28-2011 10:34 PM


Re: Short sighted?
jar writes:
Coyote writes:
How does cutting taxes and cutting social programs help?
How does raising taxes and expanding social programs help when we are already more trillions of dollars in debt than even our grandchildren can pay?
By allowing us to actually invest in things that will benefit future generations.
The debt is not a major problem. The fact that much of it was simply wasted by truly stupid decisions is, but that is in the past and so now we will suffer from past stupid behavior.
Sorry to have to break this news to you, but the government does not create or produce anything. The most it can do is take money from those who do produce and create, add a huge overhead, and then spend that money--wasting much of it on things that are more often contrary to the free market system.
Example: the Volt. If there was a market for that new-age Edsel there would be no need for government subsidies or coersion. The market would have developed it and run with it long ago.
Socialism is not the answer to our problems. How long do you think the folks who actually create and produce things will continue to do so when most of what they create and produce is taken away by force and given to those who do neither? That's the flaw in your system.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by jar, posted 03-28-2011 10:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Taq, posted 03-28-2011 10:53 PM Coyote has not replied
 Message 8 by jar, posted 03-28-2011 10:57 PM Coyote has not replied
 Message 9 by Jon, posted 03-28-2011 11:01 PM Coyote has replied
 Message 22 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-28-2011 11:45 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2124 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 15 of 440 (610283)
03-28-2011 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Jon
03-28-2011 11:01 PM


Socialism?
Governments do produce, they produced the road systems, the rail systems, the communication systems. The produced the welfare system and social safety nets.
That is not "production." Sorry. That is consumption.
And that consumption comes, after a huge overhead, when they take by force money from those who do produce. Where do you think they get the money to spend, if not through taxes?
If you can't see the difference between these two concepts then you are probably a socialist who thinks that you can keep taking from the productive forever, and get away with it. At some point the productive will go elsewhere, if they can, or simply stop producing. Look at the Soviet Union and their five-year plans. The top-down command economy doesn't work for long.
There has to be a balance between what the government takes and what the productive keep to grow the economy and create jobs. Socialists generally want to get all the golden eggs, often by force, and that simply doesn't work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Jon, posted 03-28-2011 11:01 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Jon, posted 03-28-2011 11:39 PM Coyote has replied
 Message 20 by Taq, posted 03-28-2011 11:40 PM Coyote has replied
 Message 21 by hooah212002, posted 03-28-2011 11:44 PM Coyote has not replied
 Message 48 by jar, posted 03-29-2011 10:51 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2124 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 17 of 440 (610285)
03-28-2011 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Taq
03-28-2011 11:27 PM


Moore
As much as I appreciate the spotlight that Moore can shine on issues that need attention I just wish it wasn't Moore. His movies are like a fleck of gold in a mound of dog shit.
More like the opposite.

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 Message 13 by Taq, posted 03-28-2011 11:27 PM Taq has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2124 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 23 of 440 (610291)
03-28-2011 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Jon
03-28-2011 11:39 PM


Re: Socialism?
Grow the economy and create jobs! Hallelujah! Let the wealth come a-tricklin' down... We'll all be waitin' with our mouths wide open when it gets hereif we ain't dead from thirst before then.
You don't want the economy grown and jobs created?
What do you want, the nanny state to care for you, cradle to grave?
And what are you willing to give up to get that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Jon, posted 03-28-2011 11:39 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Jon, posted 03-28-2011 11:49 PM Coyote has not replied
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 Message 28 by hooah212002, posted 03-28-2011 11:59 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2124 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 24 of 440 (610292)
03-28-2011 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Taq
03-28-2011 11:40 PM


Re: Socialism?
What matters is what you get out of it. If I am paying 500 dollars a month to a health insurance company and get limited health care when I can pay 200 dollars a month in extra taxes and get much better health care wouldn't I be better off under a socialist plan?
No. Because somebody has to pay that $300 difference.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. That's one thing that socialists never learn.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Taq, posted 03-28-2011 11:40 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2124 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 31 of 440 (610301)
03-29-2011 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by hooah212002
03-28-2011 11:59 PM


Re: Socialism?
Nanny State? Oh, like how all the banks were bailed out, free market be damned, right? THAT nanny state?
They should have been sent to bankruptcy. That would have helped straighten out the mess we are in.
There has to be a disincentive for bad decisions, both for corporations and for politicians.
How about the politicians who passed legislation requiring banks to give loans to any warm body in the name of "diversity?" What shall we do with them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by hooah212002, posted 03-28-2011 11:59 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by hooah212002, posted 03-29-2011 12:47 AM Coyote has not replied
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2124 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 32 of 440 (610302)
03-29-2011 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Dr Adequate
03-29-2011 12:06 AM


Re: Socialism?
No, because socialized health care is, for obvious reasons, more efficient.
Right up to the point where you have to wait six months to a year for a procedure that you can now get in weeks.
You just can't admit that socialism doesn't work. The more aggressive the socialism, the more poorly it works. Been watching Argentina lately? And the request by Chavez for people to cut back on calories? Argentina used to be a very productive country, now it serves as a lesson in socialist economy--for those who can learn from such lessons.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-29-2011 12:06 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Taq, posted 03-29-2011 12:24 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 35 by Jon, posted 03-29-2011 12:41 AM Coyote has replied
 Message 39 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-29-2011 12:59 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 43 by Taq, posted 03-29-2011 2:08 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 44 by anglagard, posted 03-29-2011 2:39 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 45 by fearandloathing, posted 03-29-2011 6:51 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 46 by ScientificBob, posted 03-29-2011 7:39 AM Coyote has not replied
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2124 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 36 of 440 (610307)
03-29-2011 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Jon
03-29-2011 12:41 AM


Re: Socialism?
The only people who get it in weeks are the ones who can pay for it; and they still get it in weeks under a universal health care system.
The only difference in the universal system is that those who cannot pay get their procedure in six months... instead of never.
Moving to Canada for their health care?
Or Cuba? I hear they're the best! Michael Moore told me that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Jon, posted 03-29-2011 12:41 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 50 by Theodoric, posted 03-29-2011 11:13 AM Coyote has not replied
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2124 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 371 of 440 (612899)
04-19-2011 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 370 by Minnemooseus
04-19-2011 9:49 PM


Re: Bloated government insurance program
Defense is one of the few things actually mentioned in the Constitution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by Minnemooseus, posted 04-19-2011 9:49 PM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

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