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Author Topic:   How Does Republican Platform Help Middle Class?
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 31 of 440 (610301)
03-29-2011 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by hooah212002
03-28-2011 11:59 PM


Re: Socialism?
Nanny State? Oh, like how all the banks were bailed out, free market be damned, right? THAT nanny state?
They should have been sent to bankruptcy. That would have helped straighten out the mess we are in.
There has to be a disincentive for bad decisions, both for corporations and for politicians.
How about the politicians who passed legislation requiring banks to give loans to any warm body in the name of "diversity?" What shall we do with them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by hooah212002, posted 03-28-2011 11:59 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by hooah212002, posted 03-29-2011 12:47 AM Coyote has not replied
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 32 of 440 (610302)
03-29-2011 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Dr Adequate
03-29-2011 12:06 AM


Re: Socialism?
No, because socialized health care is, for obvious reasons, more efficient.
Right up to the point where you have to wait six months to a year for a procedure that you can now get in weeks.
You just can't admit that socialism doesn't work. The more aggressive the socialism, the more poorly it works. Been watching Argentina lately? And the request by Chavez for people to cut back on calories? Argentina used to be a very productive country, now it serves as a lesson in socialist economy--for those who can learn from such lessons.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-29-2011 12:06 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Taq, posted 03-29-2011 12:24 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 35 by Jon, posted 03-29-2011 12:41 AM Coyote has replied
 Message 39 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-29-2011 12:59 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 43 by Taq, posted 03-29-2011 2:08 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 44 by anglagard, posted 03-29-2011 2:39 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 45 by fearandloathing, posted 03-29-2011 6:51 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 46 by ScientificBob, posted 03-29-2011 7:39 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 51 by Theodoric, posted 03-29-2011 11:17 AM Coyote has not replied
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Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 33 of 440 (610303)
03-29-2011 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Dr Adequate
03-29-2011 12:06 AM


Re: Socialism?
No, because socialized health care is, for obvious reasons, more efficient.
Just to drive this point home, check out this page.
In 2007 Americans paid 6k per capita on health care (public and private combined). Countries I would consider on par economically with socialized health care (in US dollars):
UK = 2.5k
Canada = 3.1k
France = 3k
Germany = 3.1k
Anyone see a trend?
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-29-2011 12:06 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 34 of 440 (610304)
03-29-2011 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Coyote
03-29-2011 12:18 AM


Re: Socialism?
Right up to the point where you have to wait six months to a year for a procedure that you can now get in weeks.
More propaganda? Recycling myths is not helping your case. How about Americans who don't even have access to health care except through ER's?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Coyote, posted 03-29-2011 12:18 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 440 (610306)
03-29-2011 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Coyote
03-29-2011 12:18 AM


Re: Socialism?
Right up to the point where you have to wait six months to a year for a procedure that you can now get in weeks.
The only people who get it in weeks are the ones who can pay for it; and they still get it in weeks under a universal health care system.
The only difference in the universal system is that those who cannot pay get their procedure in six months... instead of never.
So let's try again...
Jon

Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Coyote, posted 03-29-2011 12:18 AM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Coyote, posted 03-29-2011 12:45 AM Jon has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 36 of 440 (610307)
03-29-2011 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Jon
03-29-2011 12:41 AM


Re: Socialism?
The only people who get it in weeks are the ones who can pay for it; and they still get it in weeks under a universal health care system.
The only difference in the universal system is that those who cannot pay get their procedure in six months... instead of never.
Moving to Canada for their health care?
Or Cuba? I hear they're the best! Michael Moore told me that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Jon, posted 03-29-2011 12:41 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 40 by Taq, posted 03-29-2011 1:17 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 47 by crashfrog, posted 03-29-2011 10:50 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 50 by Theodoric, posted 03-29-2011 11:13 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 53 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-29-2011 12:34 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 440 (610309)
03-29-2011 12:47 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Coyote
03-29-2011 12:45 AM


Re: Socialism?
Moving to Canada for their health care?
Or Cuba? I hear they're the best! Michael Moore told me that.
What in the Hell are you talking about?

Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Coyote, posted 03-29-2011 12:45 AM Coyote has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 38 of 440 (610310)
03-29-2011 12:47 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Coyote
03-29-2011 12:14 AM


Re: Socialism?
Oh, you mean the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977? Sure, a Dem signed it into law, but we've had how many Republicans in office since who could have repealed it???? Of course they wouldn't. The fuckin thing made the banks rich. What's better for the banks to get someone into a loan, knowing the person can't afford it, then they can turn around and foreclose and sell the house again. Win/win for the bank, I say.
However, according to those who caught the most heat during the financial meltdown, the CRA had zip to do with it.
Perhaps you are speaking about a different piece of legislation?

"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Coyote, posted 03-29-2011 12:14 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 39 of 440 (610311)
03-29-2011 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Coyote
03-29-2011 12:18 AM


Re: Socialism?
Right up to the point where you have to wait six months to a year for a procedure that you can now get in weeks.
You forget that I lived in the UK for over thirty years. I have never had to wait that long for anything.
Meanwhile, the guy upstairs from me now has a lymphedema the size of a soccer ball on his leg. He's had it for three years. He had private health insurance, but despite the fact that it is profoundly disabling, the insurance company (Kaiser) refused to cut it off. He is now unemployed, and is officially registered as "permanently disabled" despite the fact that it would take a good surgeon about an hour to permanently cure his disability. God bless America.
You just can't admit that socialism doesn't work.
I have always said that socialism doesn't work, which is why I have never advocated it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Coyote, posted 03-29-2011 12:18 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 40 of 440 (610312)
03-29-2011 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Coyote
03-29-2011 12:45 AM


Re: Socialism?
Moving to Canada for their health care?
Or Cuba? I hear they're the best! Michael Moore told me that.
What policies are the Republicans putting forward that would reduce the price of health care for middle class americans? If none, why should middle class americans vote for Republicans?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Coyote, posted 03-29-2011 12:45 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 41 of 440 (610313)
03-29-2011 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Coyote
03-29-2011 12:14 AM


Re: Socialism?
How about the politicians who passed legislation requiring banks to give loans to any warm body in the name of "diversity?" What shall we do with them?
Hey, I've got an idea. You could pretend that they and the Community Reinvestment Act were responsible for the sub-prime crisis which ensued 30 years after the Act was passed. This will be particularly easy to do if you lie about both the provisions of the Act and the reasons for it.
Here, I made you this handy chart:
However, if you're going to dance down that particular yellow brick road, would not a little of the imaginary blame fall on the Republicans who did nothing to repeal it when they were in power?
Apart from that, it's the perfect teabagger excuse: "The real reason our economy was screwed after six years of a Republican legislature and eight years of a Republican presidency was that evil liberals wouldn't let us be mean to niggers ... er, er, let's not put it quite like that. Not in public, anyway."
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Coyote, posted 03-29-2011 12:14 AM Coyote has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 42 of 440 (610314)
03-29-2011 1:32 AM


The Mind of a Republican
Building infrastructure is "consumption". Cutting taxes helps pay off Government debt. There is no private medicine in the UK. Rich people are all "producers" - unlike the ordinary workers in manufacturing and construction (even the Bank executives all awarding themselves huge bonuses for the schemes that led to the current recession ?).
Coyote, do you even think about what you are saying ? Or are you just a slave to an ideology which has all the answers but no thought behind them ?

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 43 of 440 (610317)
03-29-2011 2:08 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Coyote
03-29-2011 12:18 AM


Re: Socialism?
Argentina used to be a very productive country, now it serves as a lesson in socialist economy--for those who can learn from such lessons.
Sorry to reply to the same post twice, but being the author of the OP brings unearned perks.
I actually checked on the economic growth in Argentina. As it turns out, they are booming right now. They are ranked 18th worldwide for economic growth for 2010 with a projected increase in GDP of around 7.5% adjusted for inflation. The US is ranked 134th and tied with that uber-socialist country Switzerland at 2.7% growth. I guess we really don't have to cry for Argentina after all.
CIA factbook found here
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 44 of 440 (610318)
03-29-2011 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Coyote
03-29-2011 12:18 AM


Re: Socialism?
Coyote writes:
Argentina used to be a very productive country, now it serves as a lesson in socialist economy--for those who can learn from such lessons.
Are you referring to the totalitarian dictatorship prior to 1982?
Exactly what are you advocating? Positivism? Objectivism? Feudalism?
Please be more comprehensive in your responses, so we can discuss matters of substance.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 45 of 440 (610330)
03-29-2011 6:51 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Coyote
03-29-2011 12:18 AM


Re: Socialism?
Coyote writes:
Been watching Argentina lately? And the request by Chavez for people to cut back on calories? Argentina used to be a very productive country, now it serves as a lesson in socialist economy--for those who can learn from such lessons.
The president of Argentina is Cristina Kirchner, I guess you mean Venezuela?

"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Coyote, posted 03-29-2011 12:18 AM Coyote has not replied

  
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