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Author Topic:   How Does Republican Platform Help Middle Class?
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 71 of 440 (610543)
03-31-2011 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by hooah212002
03-30-2011 9:54 PM


Re: Proactive Health Care
hooah212002 writes:
Individuals will be able to get their pre-emptive care in a regular facility instead of flooding the emergency room because they or their children are sick and they have no insurance because they can't afford it.
I don't believe you.
There are some people out there who truly can't afford healthcare insurance but you are not one of them. I am assuming you had a computer to post from at the time, even if it was terrible. You probably had a car, and I assume you were wearing one of several sets of clothing that you own. You probably also didn't live in the least expensive place or manner possible.
In other words, you *could* afford healthcare insurance except you made a cost-benefit comparison and determined that it was just too expensive to be "worth it". You would have to give up too many other things to afford the cost, so you chose not to.
Instead you think that you should be able to use a public service paid for in great part by taxpayers as a substitute; you want those insurance premiums that you dubbed "too expensive" to be paid for by other people who don't have a choice in the matter.
The ER doctor was perfectly correct: he/she wasn't your damn pediatrician. You should have bought health insurance and you chose not to, and you didn't want to pay the doctor's bills out of your own pocket (which some people can). Before you start to whine about how "children *deserve*" whatever you will have to explain why you chose not to provide your child with proper medical care.
That's really what it comes down to; your child had a need for medical care and you didn't provide for that need. You knew you couldn't afford the potential lump bill, but you didn't even set aside a smaller amount of funds in preparation. You completely ignored the problem in favor of sticking your hand in other people's pockets and you have the fucking gall to complain when an ER doctor calls you on the behavior.
*That* is what is disgusting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by hooah212002, posted 03-30-2011 9:54 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by hooah212002, posted 03-31-2011 9:43 AM Phage0070 has replied
 Message 74 by crashfrog, posted 03-31-2011 10:17 AM Phage0070 has replied
 Message 76 by Jon, posted 03-31-2011 12:01 PM Phage0070 has replied
 Message 77 by Taq, posted 03-31-2011 12:02 PM Phage0070 has replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 440 (610547)
03-31-2011 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by hooah212002
03-31-2011 9:43 AM


Re: Proactive Health Care
hooah212002 writes:
Because I'm not a taxpayer, right?
That isn't the service which your taxes pay for. If they did, guess what? You "wouldn't be able to afford it".
And why exactly did you have 2 car payments? Why didn't you carpool together?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by hooah212002, posted 03-31-2011 9:43 AM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by jar, posted 03-31-2011 12:15 PM Phage0070 has replied
 Message 98 by Theodoric, posted 03-31-2011 1:15 PM Phage0070 has not replied
 Message 100 by hooah212002, posted 03-31-2011 1:22 PM Phage0070 has not replied
 Message 143 by bluescat48, posted 04-01-2011 2:47 AM Phage0070 has not replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 75 of 440 (610553)
03-31-2011 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by crashfrog
03-31-2011 10:17 AM


Re: Proactive Health Care
crashfrog writes:
...the mean family plan premium in the US is around $1200.
OK? There are less expensive plans out there that have lesser coverage. Pointing out that I can't afford the cost of an average airplane doesn't mean I can't afford *any* airplane. Companies offer plans based on what the market desires, not some sort of arcane formula which will force the companies into offering products nobody can buy. If the average monthly payment for family health insurance is $1200 then apparently that is what the average family can and does pay.
Furthermore, you pointed out that renting a decent apartment at $700 a month was apparently worth more than obtaining health insurance. You could perhaps find a tiny terrible apartment at maybe $300 a month (a single room rat-trap probably) and not have to worry about your child dying to the flu. But no, a choice was made there.
crashfrog writes:
You completely ignored the problem in favor of sticking your hand in other people's pockets
What do you think insurance is, stupid?
Insurance is pooling a steady stream of income to offset a risk which can be mitigated by financial aid. Those who contribute are eligible to draw from the pooled funds should some relatively rare event occur. The entire system depends on most contributors not using as much money as they pay in, but rather offsetting the risk of a possible payment they wouldn't be able to cover on their own.
It isn't just sticking your hand into other people's pockets without contributing yourself. Crashfrog, you fucking moron.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by crashfrog, posted 03-31-2011 10:17 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Rahvin, posted 03-31-2011 12:35 PM Phage0070 has not replied
 Message 99 by crashfrog, posted 03-31-2011 1:21 PM Phage0070 has not replied
 Message 106 by Taq, posted 03-31-2011 1:40 PM Phage0070 has not replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 440 (610557)
03-31-2011 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Jon
03-31-2011 12:01 PM


Re: Proactive Health Care
Jon writes:
Yup, this is the Republican position alright: folk who want to be healthy should have to give up everything else they own (bankrupt themselves) in order to afford the care.
So do you think its going to become magically less expensive if the government forces people to pay for it, or do you not realize that people who can't afford to buy health insurance now aren't going to be able to afford paying taxes which substitute for health insurance?
Or are you still just pitching the idea that other people should be forced to pay to keep you healthy?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Jon, posted 03-31-2011 12:01 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Jon, posted 03-31-2011 12:09 PM Phage0070 has replied
 Message 94 by Rahvin, posted 03-31-2011 12:41 PM Phage0070 has not replied
 Message 104 by hooah212002, posted 03-31-2011 1:33 PM Phage0070 has not replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 440 (610560)
03-31-2011 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Taq
03-31-2011 12:02 PM


Re: Proactive Health Care
Taq writes:
Replace "insurance premiums" with "school tuition" and you have the public school system. Do you consider the public school system to be "disgusting"?
Everyone contributes to the public school system and is eligible for the rewards of public education. On the other hand, most people pay for their own private health insurance and are not eligible to get equivalent care from the ER because that isn't what the ER is supposed to be doing.
A more appropriate analogy involving the school system would be someone demanding a college degree for free, because they "can't afford" to pay college tuition like everyone else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Taq, posted 03-31-2011 12:02 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by hooah212002, posted 03-31-2011 12:35 PM Phage0070 has replied
 Message 93 by Taq, posted 03-31-2011 12:40 PM Phage0070 has not replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 440 (610561)
03-31-2011 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Jon
03-31-2011 12:09 PM


Re: Proactive Health Care
Jon writes:
Or are you still just pitching the idea that other people should be forced to pay to keep you healthy?
Public health is a public good.
I would agree, so buy some fucking insurance. Any way you cut it you are not carrying your weight.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Jon, posted 03-31-2011 12:09 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Jon, posted 03-31-2011 12:39 PM Phage0070 has not replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 84 of 440 (610563)
03-31-2011 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by jar
03-31-2011 12:15 PM


Re: Proactive Health Care
jar writes:
All First World Nations' health care is paid for primarily through taxes and yes, their citizens can afford it.
If you had been paying any attention you would see that was my point from the start: He *could* afford healthcare insurance he just didn't want to. He had to give up too many other things to make the payments so he chose to try to misuse a public service and was rightly scolded by a professional at the ER.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by jar, posted 03-31-2011 12:15 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 03-31-2011 12:23 PM Phage0070 has replied
 Message 86 by hooah212002, posted 03-31-2011 12:32 PM Phage0070 has replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 87 of 440 (610566)
03-31-2011 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by jar
03-31-2011 12:23 PM


Re: Proactive Health Care
jar writes:
If you read what I posted, it was criticizing your fallacious remark that a single payer system paid through taxes would be beyond what he could afford.
This seems reasonable, given that he could afford it before but claimed otherwise. *IF* he truly wasn't able to afford healthcare before then getting it from him through taxes wouldn't solve the issue. He would be a burden on other taxpayers.
Now you might want to argue that people unable to afford healthcare should be cared for by placing their financial burden on others, but again I maintain that he wasn't one of those people. He could afford healthcare but chose not to. If taxation to fulfill healthcare desires was enacted he would be rendered unacceptably poor which he seems to translate into "can't afford".
Therefore in his own bizarre terminology he "couldn't afford" such a system.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 03-31-2011 12:23 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 03-31-2011 12:45 PM Phage0070 has not replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 440 (610569)
03-31-2011 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by hooah212002
03-31-2011 12:32 PM


Re: Proactive Health Care
hooah212002 writes:
And I said: how the fuck do you know what I can afford? Just because YOU can afford it doesn't mean everyone else can.
Even if I grant that you seriously couldn't afford healthcare, you still have to make the case that you deserve something you can't afford.
Why did you have children if you couldn't afford to keep them healthy? Maybe you could feed, clothe, and house them but you claim that you cannot fully afford the cost.
You overextended yourself financially and for some reason expect other more fiscally prudent people to shoulder your self-inflicted burdens. Make your case for why they should, and make it a damn good one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by hooah212002, posted 03-31-2011 12:32 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by hooah212002, posted 03-31-2011 12:47 PM Phage0070 has not replied
 Message 97 by Taq, posted 03-31-2011 12:47 PM Phage0070 has not replied

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 91 of 440 (610570)
03-31-2011 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by hooah212002
03-31-2011 12:35 PM


Re: Proactive Health Care
hooah212002 writes:
If you can't get a decent job: fuck you. I got mines, you get yours, fuck you.
Welcome to a reality of limited resources. I'm sorry you never grew up, your are going to have some painful realizations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by hooah212002, posted 03-31-2011 12:35 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by crashfrog, posted 03-31-2011 1:25 PM Phage0070 has not replied
 Message 102 by hooah212002, posted 03-31-2011 1:28 PM Phage0070 has not replied

  
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