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Author Topic:   Luke and Matthews geneologies
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 120 of 168 (61192)
10-16-2003 12:14 PM


Thank you for the re direct John.
I have just spent 45 minutes skimming through this so if I missed the answer to my question please forgive me.
Concerning the birth of jesus and estabishment to abraham.Does anyone know the lineage of the holy spirit since he is after all the father?

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Brian, posted 10-16-2003 12:25 PM sidelined has replied
 Message 124 by Buzsaw, posted 10-19-2003 1:24 AM sidelined has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 122 of 168 (61198)
10-16-2003 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Brian
10-16-2003 12:25 PM


Brian
LOL I must admit I find it odd that so much arguement went on in this topic concerning lineages and translations etc.that didn't apply since joseph was not the father.
As you say the confusion over how to explain the J/G/H.S. integration is a hard pill to swallow.It is especially hard to reconcile with such statements as Christ uttering "Why hast thou forsaken me?" unless you spin it around and say something like he actually meant we mortals and not himself(God)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Brian, posted 10-16-2003 12:25 PM Brian has replied

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 126 of 168 (61563)
10-19-2003 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Buzsaw
10-19-2003 1:24 AM


Unless the holy spirit qualifies as one of the line directly descended from David then the whole point is moot since the seed is not of man.
Is this the level of B.S. that must be swallowed in order to qualify as evidence within the bible.Are you serious?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Buzsaw, posted 10-19-2003 1:24 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 128 of 168 (61571)
10-19-2003 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Buzsaw
10-19-2003 2:14 AM


Buzsaw
You wrote'
"even your science or physics book so full of unprovens"
Would you care to qualify by pointing out the unprovens?

This message is a reply to:
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 134 of 168 (62255)
10-23-2003 12:17 AM


BUMP.BUMP.BUMP.BUMP

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 136 of 168 (62264)
10-23-2003 1:15 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Quiz
10-23-2003 1:07 AM


Re: The correct way to look at it!
Where do you get the precise trace of the geneology of Mary in the bible?I would like to see it for myself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Quiz, posted 10-23-2003 1:07 AM Quiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Quiz, posted 10-23-2003 1:44 AM sidelined has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 144 of 168 (62282)
10-23-2003 3:30 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Quiz
10-23-2003 1:44 AM


Re: The correct way to look at it!
This is where a critical point of biblical criticism comes to light.The way I read it is that Mary was not bearing Josephs son but rather was pregnant with another man's child.The shame on the house of David would be obvious since we are told that Joseph is of the house of David [Luke 1:27]To avoid scandal what better way than to bring in divine intervention.
Now I am atheist and that is ok it is my decision but I honestly believe that this is a more plausible scenario than an immaterial invisible spirit impregnating a woman since IMHO there is no seed in a ghost eh? This also gets rid of the dilemma of virgin birth and any possible problem there.It is also a common move on the part of royalty to spindoctor the scandals in the family closets.
The aplogetics of the bible disappear into nonexistence when we view the bible as stories told for the purposes of neccesity and social structuring and yes even war.I always come back to this point when I listen to the wars between people over religous points of view and the rhetoric of my god/your god and that point is this.
It does not matter what your point of view the party responsibile for killing is us,we humans,we build the weapons we pull the triggers.Why do we cling to God. Why don't we grow up and ,for those of you who believe,stand up as Adults and build a society based on people first Belief last.
The greatest influence on my view of war and its stupidity was gained through war poetry of the first and second world war.There is no insult to a nation that cannot be overcome by means other than bloodshed.as proof of that I offer you this poem.The last line says it all.
Poetry of Wilfred Owen
Dulce et Decorum est
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame, all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.
Gas! GAS! Quick, boys! -- An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime. --
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams before my helpless sight
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin,
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs
Obscene as cancer,
Bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, --
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
This is the price paid by young men every day.There is no book whose story is enough to warrant such horror.
"". . .Above all I am not concerned with Poetry.
My Subject is War, and the Pity of War,
The Poetry is in the Pity." Wilfred Owen"
[This message has been edited by sidelined, 10-23-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Quiz, posted 10-23-2003 1:44 AM Quiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Quiz, posted 10-23-2003 4:34 AM sidelined has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 148 of 168 (62367)
10-23-2003 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Quiz
10-23-2003 4:34 AM


Re: The correct way to look at it!
You must explain matthew 1:18 then.
"she was found with child of the Holy Ghost."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Quiz, posted 10-23-2003 4:34 AM Quiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Quiz, posted 10-23-2003 6:15 PM sidelined has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 151 of 168 (62449)
10-23-2003 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Quiz
10-23-2003 6:15 PM


Re: The correct way to look at it!
So this would be one of the false prophets Christ spoke of then?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Quiz, posted 10-23-2003 6:15 PM Quiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Quiz, posted 10-23-2003 10:38 PM sidelined has replied
 Message 161 by Quiz, posted 10-24-2003 4:09 AM sidelined has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 153 of 168 (62491)
10-24-2003 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Quiz
10-23-2003 10:38 PM


Re: Sidelined your name discribes your character
Hey Quiz
I do believe you are upset with me.Does this mean we cannot longer be friends?Oh ,dear, whatever shall become of me?
You are right I do indeed try to try to annoy people but never on the basis of their religion or lack thereof.So I am genuinely puzzled as to why a good christian man such as yourself would find it necessary to rip a strip off of poor old me.
Let us get something straight between you and I.If I suspect you of pushing the envelope on matters of the meaning of bible verses then you will be called on it.You did this on your last post.The phrase I took from the bible specifies the holy ghost.If a different book had shown it was God instead it makes no difference to the POINT I was trying to make,which is,how do you explain the ability of a God who is not flesh and blood impregnating a mortal woman? Yet she went through the normal nine month gestation period to give birth.I find it far more plausible to assume as I did that she was pregnant out of wedlock and in order to save face with the house of David made up the whole issue of God and divine intervention to keep up appearances.
You did not address this but rather tried to shuffle around the discepancy.Did you expect I would throw up my hands and say you are right.At best you simply confirm the unreliable nature of the veracity of the bible as a divinely inspired text.
Anyway I am not shaken by your ranting and I believe that to stay consistent with Jesus' prediction of false prophets that since this verse is out of sync with two others that it is a reasonable question.
Your turn.Now count to ten and go to your special place and I will await your reply.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Quiz, posted 10-23-2003 10:38 PM Quiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Quiz, posted 10-24-2003 3:15 AM sidelined has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 156 of 168 (62516)
10-24-2003 3:11 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Quiz
10-23-2003 10:38 PM


Re: Sidelined your name discribes your character
P.S. read the posts will you
I wrote:
So this would be one of the false prophets Christ spoke of then?
you post:
Where the hell did you get that I was saying he is a false prophet?
It may be a problem I have with translation but did I say you did?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Quiz, posted 10-23-2003 10:38 PM Quiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Quiz, posted 10-24-2003 3:36 AM sidelined has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 167 of 168 (62783)
10-25-2003 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by AdminBrian
10-24-2003 10:25 AM


Re: Sidelined your name discribes your character
Hey Quiz
Now you've done it.You have gone and P.O.'d a happy face jedi warrior.You got a death wish or something?
P.S. BUMP

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by AdminBrian, posted 10-24-2003 10:25 AM AdminBrian has not replied

Replies to this message:
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