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Author Topic:   Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 541 of 657 (613104)
04-21-2011 3:35 PM


Oops
I posted the last message imo, significant to my argument before browsing Admin's message upstream.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 542 of 657 (613110)
04-21-2011 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 539 by Buzsaw
04-21-2011 3:30 PM


Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
quote:
Paul, it would be either disingenuous and/or naive to deny that Nuweiba Beach is a delta, given the fan shaped topography, common to deltas and the bird-foot like drainage beds protruding from the wadi to the gulf to this day.
I haven't seen these drainage channels. Perhaps you could actually provide evidence rather than claiming it exists ?
However since it would be disingenuous or naive in the extreme to jump from a minor delta to a massive sandbank present at the right time - and you've clearly no reasonable way of bridging that gap - it appears that the delta issue is moot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 539 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2011 3:30 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 543 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2011 6:56 PM PaulK has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 543 of 657 (613120)
04-21-2011 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 542 by PaulK
04-21-2011 4:06 PM


Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
PaulK writes:
quote:
Paul, it would be either disingenuous and/or naive to deny that Nuweiba Beach is a delta, given the fan shaped topography, common to deltas and the bird-foot like drainage beds protruding from the wadi to the gulf to this day.
I haven't seen these drainage channels. Perhaps you could actually provide evidence rather than claiming it exists ?
However since it would be disingenuous or naive in the extreme to jump from a minor delta to a massive sandbank present at the right time - and you've clearly no reasonable way of bridging that gap - it appears that the delta issue is moot.
Your good bud, Jar, inadvertently cited it in Message 80. Just double click on Nuweiba Beach until you get what you want.

View Larger Map
Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 542 by PaulK, posted 04-21-2011 4:06 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 549 by Theodoric, posted 04-21-2011 9:10 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 558 by PaulK, posted 04-22-2011 3:04 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 544 of 657 (613122)
04-21-2011 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 540 by jar
04-21-2011 3:34 PM


Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
jar writes:
Buzsaw writes:
LOL. Apparently, some catastrophe created the fan shaped delta.
What evidence do you have that "some catastrophe created the fan shaped delta"?
The evidence happens to be, partially, in your Message 80. This shows that Nuweiba is a delta. However, the insignificant flow of the wadi is evident that the delta was likely formed catastrophically and not by the wadi.
Edited by Buzsaw, : fix link

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 540 by jar, posted 04-21-2011 3:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 545 by jar, posted 04-21-2011 7:18 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 547 by ringo, posted 04-21-2011 7:33 PM Buzsaw has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 545 of 657 (613124)
04-21-2011 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 544 by Buzsaw
04-21-2011 7:11 PM


Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
Buzsaw writes:
jar writes:
Buzsaw writes:
LOL. Apparently, some catastrophe created the fan shaped delta.
What evidence do you have that "some catastrophe created the fan shaped delta"?
The evidence happens to be, partially, in your [msg=580901]. This shows that Nuweiba is a delta. However, the insignificant flow of the wadi is evident that the delta was likely formed catastrophically and not by the wadi.
Sorry but where is the evidence that it was formed by a catastrophe?
And remember you cannot use the Biblical Flood since that did not happen.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 544 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2011 7:11 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 546 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2011 7:32 PM jar has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 546 of 657 (613125)
04-21-2011 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 545 by jar
04-21-2011 7:18 PM


Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
jar writes:
Buzsaw writes:
jar writes:
Buzsaw writes:
LOL. Apparently, some catastrophe created the fan shaped delta.
What evidence do you have that "some catastrophe created the fan shaped delta"?
The evidence happens to be, partially, in your [msg=580901]. This shows that Nuweiba is a delta. However, the insignificant flow of the wadi is evident that the delta was likely formed catastrophically and not by the wadi.
Sorry but where is the evidence that it was formed by a catastrophe?
And remember you cannot use the Biblical Flood since that did not happen.
Some credentialed scientists would take issue with you on that count. I see Nuweiba as supportive to the catastrophic Biblical flood, more so than to a relative uniformitarion view.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 545 by jar, posted 04-21-2011 7:18 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 548 by jar, posted 04-21-2011 7:40 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 551 by Admin, posted 04-21-2011 9:16 PM Buzsaw has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 547 of 657 (613126)
04-21-2011 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 544 by Buzsaw
04-21-2011 7:11 PM


Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
Nuweiba writes:
This shows that Nuweiba is a delta.
There's a superficial resemblence to a delta. Where's the evidence that it's composed of sediment from the wadi? And what distinguishes Nuweiba from similar-looking formations on the coast of the Gulf - e.g. at Nabq and Dahab?

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 544 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2011 7:11 PM Buzsaw has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 548 of 657 (613127)
04-21-2011 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 546 by Buzsaw
04-21-2011 7:32 PM


Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
Buzsaw writes:
jar writes:
Buzsaw writes:
jar writes:
Buzsaw writes:
LOL. Apparently, some catastrophe created the fan shaped delta.
What evidence do you have that "some catastrophe created the fan shaped delta"?
The evidence happens to be, partially, in your [msg=580901]. This shows that Nuweiba is a delta. However, the insignificant flow of the wadi is evident that the delta was likely formed catastrophically and not by the wadi.
Sorry but where is the evidence that it was formed by a catastrophe?
And remember you cannot use the Biblical Flood since that did not happen.
Some credentialed scientists would take issue with you on that count. I see Nuweiba as supportive to the catastrophic Biblical flood, more so than to a relative uniformitarion view.
It is irrelevant if they disagree, it is a fact and they would simply be wrong.
BUT...evidence Buz, evidence.
Where is the evidence that it was from a catastrophic event?
Evidence Buz.
Evidence.
Honestly Buz you cannot even produce a model that the Flood would cause that.
Evidence.
AbE: and your imaginary sand bar evidence as well.
Evidence Buz.
Edited by jar, : AbE:

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 546 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2011 7:32 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 549 of 657 (613129)
04-21-2011 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 543 by Buzsaw
04-21-2011 6:56 PM


Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
Still don't see a delta. Where is the river that would cause a delta? More importantly, even if this was a delta, how does this provide evidence for your "sand bar"?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 543 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2011 6:56 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 550 by jar, posted 04-21-2011 9:14 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 556 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2011 11:33 PM Theodoric has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 550 of 657 (613131)
04-21-2011 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 549 by Theodoric
04-21-2011 9:10 PM


Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
Theodoric writes:
Still don't see a delta. Where is the river that would cause a delta? More importantly, even if this was a delta, how does this provide evidence for your "sand bar"?
If you look you can see a city and roads and such sitting right in the middle of what Buz calls a delta. And the 'river' if you look is actually a frikken highway.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 549 by Theodoric, posted 04-21-2011 9:10 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 552 by Minnemooseus, posted 04-21-2011 9:38 PM jar has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 551 of 657 (613132)
04-21-2011 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 546 by Buzsaw
04-21-2011 7:32 PM


Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
Buzsaw writes:
Some credentialed scientists would take issue with you on that count. I see Nuweiba as supportive to the catastrophic Biblical flood, more so than to a relative uniformitarion view.
By raising new unevidenced claims you are distracting attention from your earlier unevidenced claims. One unevidenced claim at a time. When the time comes I will ask you to describe the evidence these "credentialed scientists" used to conclude that Nuweiba was formed catastrophically.
I have a number of times requested your evidence that there was a sandbar off the coast of Nuweiba at the time of the Exodus. Please describe this evidence now. Once you've described this evidence and it has been discussed we can move on to your other claims.
You are too easily distracted by the other participants. You can respond to them all you like and that's fine, but you must also respond to my request for the evidence of a sand bar off Nuweiba. Because I've asked for this evidence so many times now I'm going to ask you to respond to this request before you respond to anything else.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 546 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2011 7:32 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 555 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2011 11:18 PM Admin has replied

Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 552 of 657 (613134)
04-21-2011 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 550 by jar
04-21-2011 9:14 PM


Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
From message 80:

View Larger Map
If you look you can see a city and roads and such sitting right in the middle of what Buz calls a delta.
Not unlike what we refer to as "New Orleans"?
And the 'river' if you look is actually a frikken highway.
Running up what appears to be a river valley (look at the "Ter" view).
The lightest area appears to be modern river flood plain confined by levees.
I'd buy it as being a delta.
Moose
Edited by Minnemooseus, : Add the "Ter" part.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 550 by jar, posted 04-21-2011 9:14 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 553 by jar, posted 04-21-2011 9:41 PM Minnemooseus has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 553 of 657 (613135)
04-21-2011 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 552 by Minnemooseus
04-21-2011 9:38 PM


Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
Minnemooseus writes:
From message 80:

View Larger Map
If you look you can see a city and roads and such sitting right in the middle of what Buz calls a delta.
Not unlike what we refer to as "New Orleans"?
And the 'river' if you look is actually a frikken highway.
Running up what appears to be a river valley.
The lightest area appears to be modern river flood plain confined by levees.
I'd buy it as being a delta.
Moose
Not at all like New Orleans. There are no signs I can see of silt or silt build up, rather desert sand and rock.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 552 by Minnemooseus, posted 04-21-2011 9:38 PM Minnemooseus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 554 by Minnemooseus, posted 04-21-2011 10:43 PM jar has replied

Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 554 of 657 (613140)
04-21-2011 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 553 by jar
04-21-2011 9:41 PM


Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
quote:
Nuweiba lies on a large flood plain measuring about 40 km2 (15 sq mi),sandwiched between the Sinai mountains and the Gulf of Aqaba...
Nuweiba - Wikipedia
And what would you call a river flood plain located where the river flows into the sea? I'd call it a delta.
quote:
Delta - A large, roughly triangular body of sediment deposited at the mouth of a river.
EvC Forum: Geology Glossary
There are no signs I can see of silt or silt build up...
Zoom in more.
Moose
Edited by Minnemooseus, : Add delta definition.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 553 by jar, posted 04-21-2011 9:41 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 561 by jar, posted 04-22-2011 9:55 AM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 555 of 657 (613145)
04-21-2011 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 551 by Admin
04-21-2011 9:16 PM


Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
Admin writes:
Buzsaw writes:
Some credentialed scientists would take issue with you on that count. I see Nuweiba as supportive to the catastrophic Biblical flood, more so than to a relative uniformitarion view.
By raising new unevidenced claims you are distracting attention from your earlier unevidenced claims. One unevidenced claim at a time. When the time comes I will ask you to describe the evidence these "credentialed scientists" used to conclude that Nuweiba was formed catastrophically.
I have a number of times requested your evidence that there was a sandbar off the coast of Nuweiba at the time of the Exodus. Please describe this evidence now. Once you've described this evidence and it has been discussed we can move on to your other claims.
You are too easily distracted by the other participants. You can respond to them all you like and that's fine, but you must also respond to my request for the evidence of a sand bar off Nuweiba. Because I've asked for this evidence so many times now I'm going to ask you to respond to this request before you respond to anything else.
Admin, I'm assuming it's OK to respond directly on this count.
After checking the Online Dictionary definition I see my usage of the term, sandbar was incorrect.
quote:
sandbar (sndbr)
n.
A ridge of sand formed in a river or along a shore by the action of waves or currents
As for the scientists, I have attended sessions of two of them here in upstate NY. Both of the scientists were once avid evolutionists. It's been a while but I'll try to get up their names and credentials.
There are some at ICR and other sources, whether anyone here cares to admit it or not. I have just began my search.
Then there's this Science Daily ...team, headed by EcoOcean's Andreas Weil and Prof. Sven Beer of Tel Aviv University,..
quote:
Marine Team Finds Surprising Evidence Supporting A Great Biblical Flood
ScienceDaily (Sep. 10, 2007) Did the great flood of Noah's generation really occur thousands of years ago? Was the Roman city of Caesarea destroyed by an ancient tsunami? Will pollution levels in our deep seas remain forever a mystery?
The team, headed by EcoOcean's Andreas Weil and Prof. Sven Beer of Tel Aviv University.........
Admittedly, they don't necessarily view this as extensive as the Biblical account, but for sure, their work is supportive to the Noaic Flood. Nobody has hard empirical evidence about the flood details. Imo, cites such as Nuweiba are just another of many supporting corroborative evidences of the Biblical flood.
Edited by Buzsaw, : Correct a word and forgot spell check

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 551 by Admin, posted 04-21-2011 9:16 PM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 559 by PaulK, posted 04-22-2011 3:18 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 560 by Admin, posted 04-22-2011 7:07 AM Buzsaw has replied

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