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Author Topic:   Definitions of Liberal and Conservative
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 19 of 46 (613960)
04-29-2011 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
04-29-2011 12:12 PM


From a Canadian perspective (though I'm sure many Canadians would disagree with me):
A liberal believes that healthcare should be universally available to eveybody regardless of their ability to pay.
A conservative believes that healthcare should be universally available to everybody regardless of their ability to pay but those who do have the ability to pay should be allowed to go to the front of the line.
A barking-mad, howl-at-the-moon ultra-conservative believes that healthcare should be in the private sector.

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 04-29-2011 12:12 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Tram law, posted 04-29-2011 2:23 PM ringo has replied
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 04-29-2011 10:43 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 22 of 46 (613963)
04-29-2011 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Tram law
04-29-2011 2:23 PM


Tram law writes:
Why shouldn't healthcare be in the private sector? Why should it be the government's job to provide healthcare?
Simple answer: because the private sector fails to provide it universally. The government does what the private sector can't or won't do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Tram law, posted 04-29-2011 2:23 PM Tram law has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Tram law, posted 04-29-2011 9:07 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 35 of 46 (613987)
04-29-2011 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Tram law
04-29-2011 9:07 PM


Tram law writes:
Why must it be provided universally?
There are at least two reasons I can think of.
One, human decency. How vile do you have to be to stand by and do nothing while people suffer?
Two, health is a universal benefit to everybody. The healthier your society is as a whole, the more productive you are.
Tram law writes:
Why can't some health care companies be ebtter at providing it than others?
As long as they're skimming profits off the top, they're reducing the amount of money that could be used for actual healthcare.
Tram law writes:
To use a slippery slope, why can't this principle of "things must be universal" be applied to the banks or corporations or other kinds of business and companies?
It can be. In cases where it's for the greater good of society, it should be.

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Tram law, posted 04-29-2011 9:07 PM Tram law has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 36 of 46 (613988)
04-29-2011 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
04-29-2011 10:43 PM


Re: Finally A Decent Reply
Phat writes:
I see no problem with paying a toll in order to bypass the masses.
Tell me that when a guy with a hangnail slips the doctor a few bucks to get in line in front of you.
Phat writes:
Poor folks fly coach.
In your system, the poor folks don't fly at all.

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 04-29-2011 10:43 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 04-29-2011 11:51 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 43 of 46 (613997)
04-30-2011 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Phat
04-29-2011 11:51 PM


Re: Finally A Decent Reply
Phat writes:
I tend to support a liberal base..(universal health care and social security) but I am not opposed to having the option available for a man to go to a private physician, should he so be able to afford.
My original point was that that's about where our Conservative Party stands. Anybody more conservative than that is pretty much unelectable.
Phat writes:
(Why is that even an issue?)
If doctors opt out of the system (like some game show where they grab all the cash they can), that diverts resources that could be used for the greater good.
At the present time, Canadians can go to the U.S. to buy preferred treatment. Doctors can go to the U.S. too if they want to feed their greed.

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 04-29-2011 11:51 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Tram law, posted 04-30-2011 11:55 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 46 of 46 (614015)
04-30-2011 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Tram law
04-30-2011 11:55 AM


Re: Finally A Decent Reply
Tram law writes:
So the common good is defined by the needs of the masses?
Um... yeah. How else?
Tram law writes:
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one?
Don't confuse needs with rights. Meeting the needs of the many is beneficial for everybody, including the few, regardless of your ideology. That's not an excuse for infringing the rights of the few for the good of the many.
If you think somebody has a right to grab more than his share while others do without, that's fine. I'm just saying that society as a whole will benefit from a little equalization.
Edited by ringo, : Fixed quote.

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Tram law, posted 04-30-2011 11:55 AM Tram law has not replied

  
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