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Author Topic:   Definition of Species
Big_Al35
Member
Posts: 384
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 286 of 450 (615017)
05-09-2011 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by Percy
05-09-2011 11:22 AM


Re: Gene Deletion
You have given examples of genes completely missing from the chimp genome namely APOL1 etc but if you remember I also asked you, Percy, for genes missing from the human genome?

Can you come up with anything?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Percy, posted 05-09-2011 11:22 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by Percy, posted 05-09-2011 5:47 PM Big_Al35 has not yet responded
 Message 288 by Wounded King, posted 05-09-2011 6:27 PM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19066
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 287 of 450 (615020)
05-09-2011 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Big_Al35
05-09-2011 5:23 PM


Re: Gene Deletion
Hi Al,

You're continuing to bounce around with objections to this and that without rhyme or reason, as if you have no substance behind your objections, you just like objecting.

First you claim, without any reason, that chimps and humans have all the same genes, so we show you genes humans have that chimps don't.

So now you say, "Okay, so humans and chimps don't share all the same genes, but I bet you can't come up with any genes chimps have that humans don't."

Why, Al? Why do you think this? It can't be your voluminous and encyclopedic mastery of all things biological, because you have none. It can't be your record of many correct arguments in this thread, because you have very few. So you have little knowledge in this area, and your record in this thread is one of error after error, so what is it that makes you believe you're right this time, Al? Why do you doubt that chimps have genes humans don't?

And what on Earth has it to do with the topic?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Big_Al35, posted 05-09-2011 5:23 PM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

  
Wounded King
Member (Idle past 2431 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Edinburgh, Scotland
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 288 of 450 (615031)
05-09-2011 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Big_Al35
05-09-2011 5:23 PM


Re: Gene Deletion
Can you come up with anything?

Olfactory Receptor genes, lots of them (Gilad et al., 2005). This paper covers both cases where genes have lost their functionality, pseudogenisation, and also those where the basis seems to be lineage specific expansion of a gene family.

TTFN,

WK


This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Big_Al35, posted 05-09-2011 5:23 PM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16107
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 8.3


(1)
Message 289 of 450 (615039)
05-09-2011 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by Big_Al35
05-09-2011 11:00 AM


What utter bu*lsh*t. I don't think this even warrants a reply.

The reply "Thank you for explaining that to me, Dr Adequate" would be warranted by civility if nothing else.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Big_Al35, posted 05-09-2011 11:00 AM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

  
Big_Al35
Member
Posts: 384
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 290 of 450 (615080)
05-10-2011 6:26 AM
Reply to: Message 283 by Percy
05-09-2011 11:22 AM


Re: Gene Deletion
Percy writes:

If you can't tell how ridiculously unlikely these scenarios are then you shouldn't be discussing this topic.

And if you can't see where I am going with this discussion maybe you shouldn't be discussing this topic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Percy, posted 05-09-2011 11:22 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by Percy, posted 05-10-2011 8:31 AM Big_Al35 has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19066
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 291 of 450 (615086)
05-10-2011 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 290 by Big_Al35
05-10-2011 6:26 AM


Re: Gene Deletion
Big_Al35 writes:

And if you can't see where I am going with this discussion maybe you shouldn't be discussing this topic.

Having constructed your house of straw with no effort or thought, with stairways that empty into closets and windows installed in floors, you nonetheless demand that others somehow make polite and treat it as if there were sense in it. If you have anything substantive and true to say instead of merely carrying on the labor of the ignorant by casting aspersions at things you don't understand then I suggest you say it instead of issuing senseless one sentence retorts that contribute nothing.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Big_Al35, posted 05-10-2011 6:26 AM Big_Al35 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by Big_Al35, posted 05-10-2011 12:18 PM Percy has responded

  
Big_Al35
Member
Posts: 384
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 292 of 450 (615105)
05-10-2011 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by Percy
05-10-2011 8:31 AM


Re: Gene Deletion
Percy writes:

Having constructed your house of straw with no effort or thought, with stairways that empty into closets and windows installed in floors

What utter bul*sh*t!!!!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by Percy, posted 05-10-2011 8:31 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by Percy, posted 05-10-2011 1:34 PM Big_Al35 has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19066
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 293 of 450 (615119)
05-10-2011 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by Big_Al35
05-10-2011 12:18 PM


Re: Gene Deletion
Hi Al,

I bet you're a hell of nice guy in real life and probably very knowledgeable and successful in whatever you do. Heck, I bet you can even drive and text at the same time! But when it comes to biology you're a complete idiot.

Even worse, you seem to have no criteria against which to judge your competence regarding topics biological, and so you carry blithely on as if completely unaware of the carnage of error, mistakes and ignorance that lies in your wake.

I'm sure this can only be because you have a great deal of competence in something, and you somehow believe that this competence should be transferable into whatever other field you care to direct it at. Sadly that's not the case, not for you, not for anyone. Even great masters in one branch of science become, without study, mere laypeople in others. Knowledge of a topic comes from hard study of that topic, not some other topic.

Just as only great billionaires down on their luck can end up owing billions instead of the mere hundreds of thousands of us normal people, your confidence in your competence has led you to foolish gambles (e.g., "Chimps and humans share all the same genes") and intellectual bankruptcy on a grand scale, and it seems impossible that you could ever make up such a deficit.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by Big_Al35, posted 05-10-2011 12:18 PM Big_Al35 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by Big_Al35, posted 05-10-2011 1:43 PM Percy has responded
 Message 296 by Big_Al35, posted 05-10-2011 2:03 PM Percy has responded

  
Big_Al35
Member
Posts: 384
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 294 of 450 (615123)
05-10-2011 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by Percy
05-10-2011 1:34 PM


Re: Gene Deletion
Percy writes:

Just as only great billionaires down on their luck can end up owing billions instead of the mere hundreds of thousands of us normal people

What utter bul*sh*t!!!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Percy, posted 05-10-2011 1:34 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by Percy, posted 05-10-2011 1:55 PM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19066
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 295 of 450 (615124)
05-10-2011 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by Big_Al35
05-10-2011 1:43 PM


Re: Gene Deletion
Al, we're all waiting for you to actually respond to the replies to you. The criticism you're drawing is due to your lack of meaningful responses. Please stop with the one-liners and say something rational and on-topic that actually contributes to the discussion.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by Big_Al35, posted 05-10-2011 1:43 PM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

  
Big_Al35
Member
Posts: 384
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 296 of 450 (615125)
05-10-2011 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by Percy
05-10-2011 1:34 PM


Re: Gene Deletion
Percy writes:

Even worse, you seem to have no criteria against which to judge your competence

I don't know what position you hold on this site. It would appear that you are some sort of moderator/administrator. I don't really care as you are still a moron who has contributed nothing to this debate other than to have to be corrected by WK again and again.

You keep suggesting I have a position on this issue. I was here to discuss and don't hold an opinion one way or the other on this particular topic.

Anyway, I am not sure why I am bothering to reply to you as your contribution to this debate has been worthless and you still haven't even answered my question. I am guessing at this point your going to ban me or block me but a ban from a cretin is probably a good thing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Percy, posted 05-10-2011 1:34 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 297 by Percy, posted 05-10-2011 4:18 PM Big_Al35 has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19066
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 297 of 450 (615145)
05-10-2011 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by Big_Al35
05-10-2011 2:03 PM


Re: Gene Deletion
Hi Al,

I'm just a participant in this thread. Moderators are discouraged from moderating threads in which they are participating.

I appreciate WK corrections when they are actually corrections, but I think you lack the necessary background to understand WK's feedback to me, since it primarily stems from a difference of opinion about the appropriate level of detail for discussing with someone like yourself.

In case it helps, I don't think you're at any risk at all of moderator action. I sympathize with the difficult task you face of one person against several, but much of the difficulty you're experiencing is of your own making. You can't expect the real world to correspond to things you just happen, for who knows what reason, to think are true. If you're going to post messages insisting on things that you haven't first checked out then you have to accept the consequence that you're very likely to often be wrong. But it's easy to stop this pattern: research first, digest and understand second, post third.

I think you should read the material you haven't responded to yet, research and think through your answer, then present it.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Big_Al35, posted 05-10-2011 2:03 PM Big_Al35 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by Big_Al35, posted 05-11-2011 5:14 AM Percy has responded

  
Big_Al35
Member
Posts: 384
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 298 of 450 (615169)
05-11-2011 5:14 AM
Reply to: Message 297 by Percy
05-10-2011 4:18 PM


Re: Gene Deletion
Percy writes:

I think you should read the material you haven't responded to yet, research and think through your answer, then present it.

So let me get this right, you have chosen to talk sh*t because you think I am talking s*it? It is a strange world that you inhabit.

I will not be responding to you until you answer the question that I asked. You were the one who suggested that that humans and chimps both have genes that the other does not possess. Please give me an example of a gene, by name, which a chimpanzee has but a human does not.

I am simply trying to clarify this very simple point. In your delusional grand intellect it appears that you can't see the tree for the forest.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by Percy, posted 05-10-2011 4:18 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by Percy, posted 05-11-2011 7:31 AM Big_Al35 has responded
 Message 302 by subbie, posted 05-11-2011 9:29 AM Big_Al35 has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19066
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 299 of 450 (615179)
05-11-2011 7:31 AM
Reply to: Message 298 by Big_Al35
05-11-2011 5:14 AM


Re: Gene Deletion
Big_Al35 writes:

So let me get this right, you have chosen to talk sh*t because you think I am talking s*it? It is a strange world that you inhabit.

I think you're a blowhard who uses bluster to accomplish what his intellect cannot.

I will not be responding to you until you answer the question that I asked.

People, especially WK, have been answering your questions since you joined this thread, and you haven't responded meaningfully yet. Why would that change now?

You were the one who suggested that that humans and chimps both have genes that the other does not possess. Please give me an example of a gene, by name, which a chimpanzee has but a human does not.

Didn't you see WK's Message 288? He cited Gilad et al., 2005. Here's a relevant excerpt:

Genome Research writes:

...there is a human ortholog for almost every chimpanzee OR gene. However, there are also some species-specific expansions. A chimpanzee expansion within OR subfamily 4C (Fig. 2A), and three human expansions in subfamilies 2A, 4F (also noted by Linardopoulou et al. 2001), and 6C (Fig. 2B,C,D).

And if you go to the article and follow the links to the figures you'll see all the details for olefactory genes chimps have that humans do not. Gene designations that begin with the letter H are human, those beginning with C are chimp. An example of a gene that chimps have that humans do not is C4C1001 in Figure A.

But the important question is why you want this information, Al? What are you going to do with it? You haven't done anything with any of the other information provided to you, and so I expect you're not going to do anything with this information either. You're just going to move on to ask more disputatious questions just for the sake of being disputatious.

But I would be delighted to be proven wrong, so go ahead and carefully examine and analyze the information, then provide a rational and intelligent response to it, hopefully explaining why you doubted that chimps could have genes humans don't and making clear that it wasn't just some idea out of the blue that flitted into your mind.

Your problem, Al, is that you don't seem to realize that there are some things that we know. Sure, there are lots of things we do not know and even will never know, but still, there are some things we do know. Your modus operandi seems to be assume that no matter what we say that there is no way we could possibly know it, and you therefore challenge it while, for some perverse reason known only to yourself, asserting that it couldn't possibly be true, with the unsurprising result that you're found wrong time and time again.

No one's trying to hornswoggle you, Al. We're only telling you what we know. I know a bit and try to keep things simple. WK knows a lot and prefers a detailed and meticulously accurate approach. But nobody here, except you, is making things up.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by Big_Al35, posted 05-11-2011 5:14 AM Big_Al35 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by Big_Al35, posted 05-11-2011 8:13 AM Percy has responded

  
Big_Al35
Member
Posts: 384
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 300 of 450 (615185)
05-11-2011 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 299 by Percy
05-11-2011 7:31 AM


Re: Gene Deletion
Percy writes:

An example of a gene that chimps have that humans do not is C4C1001

A large number of the OR genes are infact pseudogenes or non-functional and therefore not real genes. Talking about pseudogenes isn't really helpful as we already know that fragments of any segment of DNA will typically differ between chimps and humans. I can't find any reference to this gene from other sources.

Is this a pseudogene or a real gene?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by Percy, posted 05-11-2011 7:31 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by Percy, posted 05-11-2011 8:55 AM Big_Al35 has responded
 Message 303 by Wounded King, posted 05-11-2011 9:44 AM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

  
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