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Author Topic:   Support for Louisiana repeal effort
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 24 of 108 (615045)
05-09-2011 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Tram law
05-09-2011 2:30 PM


Evidence
What makes scientific opinions more right to teach our children than religion?
Scientific opinions (theories) are based on evidence.
Religion is based on belief, dogma, scripture, revelation and other squishy subjects. No evidence is required, and evidence is generally rejected when it contradicts the above squishy subjects.
Is the difference clear now?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Tram law, posted 05-09-2011 2:30 PM Tram law has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Tram law, posted 05-09-2011 7:41 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 27 of 108 (615049)
05-09-2011 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Tram law
05-09-2011 7:41 PM


Re: Evidence
Evolution is no more than science fiction.
False.
I have studied evolution, particularly the fossil man side of things. That was one of the subjects for my Ph.D. exams. There was no science fiction involved. Rather, there was a lot of science and a lot of facts, leading to strong theories. And the fossil evidence is supported by the genetic evidence, although there was less of that when I was in grad school.
You are preaching based on beliefs. Got any real evidence to share with us?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Tram law, posted 05-09-2011 7:41 PM Tram law has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Rahvin, posted 05-09-2011 7:54 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 65 of 108 (615425)
05-12-2011 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by marc9000
05-12-2011 9:27 PM


Science!
There is a controversy regarding evolution among the general public, and the general public is who the schools are for.
Science is done by scientists, and is not subject to the popular vote of the public. It is evidence that counts in science. To quote a famous voice from the past, "The public be damned."
I know the standard retort to that is if some in the general public don’t believe organisms change over time, then their beliefs don’t matter
This is partially incorrect. The beliefs of everyone in the general public don't matter to science.
...but the controversy is largely how the word evolution changes definitions so easily. Does it mean change over time, or does it mean common ancestor Genesis is wrong? It can never be identified - it can switch definitions within one sentence.
Evolution is a complex field, comprised of many different subdivisions, including biology and paleontology to name just two. It is also two different things: a fact (change over time) and a theory of how that change takes place. It is not surprising that creationists are confused by all of the obfuscation and misrepresentation that creationist websites chose to try to confuse them with. On the other hand, Genesis is a folk myth and has nothing to do with science.
Science can seamlessly transcend into philosophy (worldviews), and if common ancestor evolution is the only game in town in science classrooms, then there’s nothing that keeps Genesis is wrong from being the topic of the day in science classrooms, and parents have a right to object to it.
Parents can object to anything they want, and that doesn't make a whit of difference in the real world. The fact remains that evolution is science and genesis is a local tribal myth. You are just upset because your local tribal myth is not accorded the prestige that science has earned--and earned for good reason.
An anti-evolution law doesn’t only have to be about promoting religion, it can also be about lessening the promotion of the religion of atheism, which also violates the constitution.
Atheism is not a religion, and it will not be a religion in spite of thousands of repetitions of this old canard by creationists.
It’s always interesting how religion/ID must be kept completely out of science classrooms, because, we’re told, it will lead to all sorts of cheapening of science, of establishment of religion, etc, yet if someone claims that studies of only evolution will lead to atheism, the slippery slope fallacy bell is clanged. When one side has more political clout than the other, free passes for double standards seem to come easily.
Science is not determined by political clout, but by evidence. There is evidence for the theory of evolution, while religion is based on belief, scripture, dogma, revelation and other unquantifiable sources.
If religions were based on evidence there would not be an estimated 40,000 world religions, or some 38,000 different brands, sects, denominations, and flavors of Christianity alone! If evidence were used to establish which beliefs were right and which were wrong there should be only one religion, as in science there is usually only one theory covering a given set of facts.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by marc9000, posted 05-12-2011 9:27 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 85 of 108 (615795)
05-16-2011 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by marc9000
05-16-2011 8:30 PM


Balance?
The Louisiana law was intended to balance the atheism that’s present in today’s science education, nothing more.
Balance atheism with what? What is the opposite, or balance, for atheism if it is not theism--or belief in deities? Theism is the province of religion.
...and claims that Genesis is mythology.
Genesis is mythology.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by marc9000, posted 05-16-2011 8:30 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 97 of 108 (616025)
05-18-2011 11:40 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by marc9000
05-18-2011 10:29 PM


Gish gallop
There are too many errors and misunderstandings in your post to even bother to try to reply.
If you want to take one or two of my points and discuss them fine, but I'm not dealing with three pages of Gish gallop.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by marc9000, posted 05-18-2011 10:29 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
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