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Author Topic:   Support for Louisiana repeal effort
Trae
Member (Idle past 4326 days)
Posts: 442
From: Fremont, CA, USA
Joined: 06-18-2004


Message 1 of 108 (614875)
05-08-2011 7:18 AM


A bill is gaining support to repeal Louisiana's antievolution law.
link

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Tram law, posted 05-09-2011 11:10 AM Trae has replied

  
Trae
Member (Idle past 4326 days)
Posts: 442
From: Fremont, CA, USA
Joined: 06-18-2004


(1)
Message 47 of 108 (615170)
05-11-2011 5:34 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Tram law
05-09-2011 11:10 AM


Hi Tram, thanks for the question.
Tram law writes:
Shouldn't this be a state issue and left to the Louisianans determine for themselves?
No. But even if it were generally the case, the law itself was developed and shaped by ‘outside agitators’ in the Discovery Institute. The LLF which pushed for the law has strong ties to the Family Research Council in Washington, DC. These laws being pushed in various states are the result of individuals working on the national stage trying to shape national policies, they are not generated due to grass-roots movement within states.
Also, state rights are more of a protection against certain specific intrusions, though not all intrusions, by other governments, I’m not aware of any state right that prevents those from outside from criticizing the laws of another state. In the US we fought a war in part to reasert that states are part of a republic.
Further, the various US states influence each other when their representatives shape Federal funding and educational laws.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Tram law, posted 05-09-2011 11:10 AM Tram law has not replied

  
Trae
Member (Idle past 4326 days)
Posts: 442
From: Fremont, CA, USA
Joined: 06-18-2004


(1)
Message 48 of 108 (615172)
05-11-2011 5:46 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Tram law
05-09-2011 1:10 PM


Tram law writes:
Because, really, it's none of their business.
The states are too interconnected to for me to say, that’s just what they do over there. I get to be concerned about national education and the overall political health of the country, or so I was taught in civics class. In other words I am not simply a citizen of a state, but also of a republic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Tram law, posted 05-09-2011 1:10 PM Tram law has not replied

  
Trae
Member (Idle past 4326 days)
Posts: 442
From: Fremont, CA, USA
Joined: 06-18-2004


Message 49 of 108 (615175)
05-11-2011 6:29 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Tram law
05-09-2011 2:30 PM


Tram law writes:
And I have been making actual arguments to the best of my ability.
Edit:
To put it simply, I suck at debate ebcause I'm not an intellectual elitist than can use a hundred thousand different words to describe a black carpenter ant. I don't do semantic bs.
Hi Tram.
This isn’t an attack. If you think it is, please ask me to explain what I mean.
I’d like to suggest something for you to consider. Perhaps if someone sucks at something they might not actually understand why?
What I am trying to suggest is that perhaps you don’t understand debate as well as you believe you do and perhaps debate isn’t actually what you might think?
Even if you were to, use a hundred thousand different words to describe a black carpenter ant and do semantic bs your debates here would not be considered much better. It is the case in some places that might be the case in some places, but here, on this forum, the debates themselves don’t let people easily hide behind those tactics.
Try to keep an open mind when reading these boards, you should see that the people who want sound arguments point out flaws no matter who makes them. I believe that part of the problem in our society is that we have an unhealthy respect for opinion. All opinions are not valid and not all opinions are equal. We as a society have been suckered into the BS that simply because we have opinions other people must respect opinions. I like to say that opinions are not worth respect, people are.
I also wanted to explain to you that rudeness is often, perhaps always, situational. I might tell a friend to fuck off and not be viewed as rude. There’s no circumstance I can think of where I could do the same to my 94 year old Great, great, great aunt. If I go into a business meeting and someone punches me in the face, probably rude. If I’m in a boxing ring, probably not.
The situation and circumstances often determine what is rude and what is not. This forum is a very specific type of forum and has its own culture. Certainly from time to time people are rude here, though more often they’re just being honest, blunt, direct, or simply not respectful of opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Tram law, posted 05-09-2011 2:30 PM Tram law has not replied

  
Trae
Member (Idle past 4326 days)
Posts: 442
From: Fremont, CA, USA
Joined: 06-18-2004


(1)
Message 50 of 108 (615176)
05-11-2011 7:06 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Tram law
05-09-2011 7:41 PM


Re: Evidence
Tram law writes:
That's why religion is needed/ in schools.And children need to be taught what's right and wrong. Not the so called morality of science.
If science is not about morality, then religion is, and it is needed in schools now more than ever.
Not, evolution.
Evolution is no more than science fiction.
Creationism doesn’t teach morality. What does a 4k year old Earth belief have to do with morality?
Religious people often say religion should be taught in school. They also blow a gasket when religion is taught in school, unless it is their pet religion.
How much time do you think high schools spend covering Evolution?
Many of the problems we have in this country would be improved by increased science education. We need more science researchers and not less. This country can’t even seem to teach high school students what is and is not science and you think we should take time out of science to teach non-science in science class?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Tram law, posted 05-09-2011 7:41 PM Tram law has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by dwise1, posted 05-11-2011 11:36 AM Trae has replied

  
Trae
Member (Idle past 4326 days)
Posts: 442
From: Fremont, CA, USA
Joined: 06-18-2004


Message 61 of 108 (615293)
05-12-2011 5:35 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by dwise1
05-11-2011 11:36 AM


Re: Evidence
dwise1 writes:
Creationism doesn’t teach morality.
It does by example. The example of lies, deception, and demogoguery. Fine Christian witness, that.
When I said Creationism doesn't teach morality, I did not mean that it didn't contain ANY moral teachings, I meant that teaching Creationism wasn't the same as teaching morality in school. If his feeling is that morality should be taught in school, creationism doesn't rise to the occasion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by dwise1, posted 05-11-2011 11:36 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
Trae
Member (Idle past 4326 days)
Posts: 442
From: Fremont, CA, USA
Joined: 06-18-2004


Message 68 of 108 (615443)
05-13-2011 3:08 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by marc9000
05-12-2011 9:27 PM


marc9000 writes:
No question that this (like Dover) is/will be a battle of special interests from both sides. And the big money will be on the evolution side. Some of it will be public money, while the creationist money will be all private.
Theodoric has asked for you to support this claim. I’d be surprised if you could. You realize in these suits that the plaintiffs are suing the government and the religious organizations pushing these challenges are also well founded? Where do you think all this evo money is coming from?
marc9000 writes:
There is a controversy regarding evolution among the general public, and the general public is who the schools are for.
The purpose of science education in public schools is to teach current science basics to students, not to try and educate students’ parents, grandparents, and neighbors. By your definition there are controversies in all school subjects since so many people in the general public are misinformed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by marc9000, posted 05-12-2011 9:27 PM marc9000 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-13-2011 3:52 AM Trae has seen this message but not replied

  
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