Support for Louisiana repeal effort

I know how that feels. I once got roasted by Dr Adequate for one of the many, many math errors that I've made while making an argument here, and it was not pleasant. It helps to have a healthy dose of humility. I figure that there are people here who know things that I do not, and it can only do me good to make a mistake and then be corrected. It's one of the best ways to learn.In my college, where all the classes were small seminars, we used to say that if you haven't changed your mind about something by the end of a discussion, then you haven't learned anything.Stay calm, respect the local customs, and be grateful for the opportunity to change your mind.

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Your beliefs do not effect reality and evidently reality does not effect your beliefs.
-Theodoric

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Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
-Steven Colbert

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I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
- John Stuart Mill

Hi Tram, thanks for the question. No. But even if it were generally the case, the law itself was developed and shaped by ‘outside agitators’ in the Discovery Institute. The LLF which pushed for the law has strong ties to the Family Research Council in Washington, DC. These laws being pushed in various states are the result of individuals working on the national stage trying to shape national policies, they are not generated due to grass-roots movement within states.Also, state rights are more of a protection against certain specific intrusions, though not all intrusions, by other governments, I’m not aware of any state right that prevents those from outside from criticizing the laws of another state. In the US we fought a war in part to reasert that states are part of a republic.Further, the various US states influence each other when their representatives shape Federal funding and educational laws.

The states are too interconnected to for me to say, that’s just what they do over there. I get to be concerned about national education and the overall political health of the country, or so I was taught in civics class. In other words I am not simply a citizen of a state, but also of a republic.

Hi Tram.This isn’t an attack. If you think it is, please ask me to explain what I mean.I’d like to suggest something for you to consider. Perhaps if someone sucks at something they might not actually understand why?What I am trying to suggest is that perhaps you don’t understand debate as well as you believe you do and perhaps debate isn’t actually what you might think?Even if you were to, use a hundred thousand different words to describe a black carpenter ant and do semantic bs your debates here would not be considered much better. It is the case in some places that might be the case in some places, but here, on this forum, the debates themselves don’t let people easily hide behind those tactics.Try to keep an open mind when reading these boards, you should see that the people who want sound arguments point out flaws no matter who makes them. I believe that part of the problem in our society is that we have an unhealthy respect for opinion. All opinions are not valid and not all opinions are equal. We as a society have been suckered into the BS that simply because we have opinions other people must respect opinions. I like to say that opinions are not worth respect, people are.I also wanted to explain to you that rudeness is often, perhaps always, situational. I might tell a friend to fuck off and not be viewed as rude. There’s no circumstance I can think of where I could do the same to my 94 year old Great, great, great aunt. If I go into a business meeting and someone punches me in the face, probably rude. If I’m in a boxing ring, probably not.The situation and circumstances often determine what is rude and what is not. This forum is a very specific type of forum and has its own culture. Certainly from time to time people are rude here, though more often they’re just being honest, blunt, direct, or simply not respectful of opinion.

Creationism doesn’t teach morality. What does a 4k year old Earth belief have to do with morality?Religious people often say religion should be taught in school. They also blow a gasket when religion is taught in school, unless it is their pet religion.How much time do you think high schools spend covering Evolution?Many of the problems we have in this country would be improved by increased science education. We need more science researchers and not less. This country can’t even seem to teach high school students what is and is not science and you think we should take time out of science to teach non-science in science class?

It does by example. The example of lies, deception, and demogoguery. Fine Christian witness, that. Or to quote from memory a past governor of Mississippi who was explaining why he was pushing for education reform:

quote:

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We know that ignorance doesn't work, because we've already tried it.

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Creationists are pushing for ignorance, which actually works against their own cause. Especially creationists and everyone who wants to oppose evolution need to learn as much as they can about evolution so that they can actually oppose it instead of taking ineffective potshots at the strawman that creationism tells them is evolution.Plus, if creationists were to change their approach and actually address evolution itself -- OK, and also do so truthfully and honestly (may as well pile on the pipe dreams) -- , then they just might slow down the rate at which they are driving people away in disgust at their religion.

It's sad that there aren't any churches in Weed, CA where children can learn about religion. Do they only teach biology and physics in Sunday school there?Edited by ZenMonkey, : Rhetorical clarity.

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Your beliefs do not effect reality and evidently reality does not effect your beliefs.
-Theodoric

​

Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
-Steven Colbert

​

I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
- John Stuart Mill

To get back on Topic TramWould you feel any different if Louisana wasn't just including Xian creationism, it would be including Hindu, Muslim, Egyptian, Norse, etc... myths in as valid origins? I can imagine your thoughts would be quite different.The whole idea behind separating church and state is that whose religion do you support and whose religion do you not? The founding fathers of this country were smart enough to figure out that if favor one group you insult another. So why not just make the government neutral in the matter?I know your next response is going to be, then why do they favor evolution!? That's a religion! To which I reply it is not a religion. When you can put together a theory that doesn't rely on magic or mythical beings making things out of thin air and dust you have a leg to stand on. Otherwise we should teach that which is supported by thousands of scientists around the world. Not some hucksters who are only interested in staying in business.Oh yeah and come down from your cross, everyone gets a bloody nose every now and then when debating. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and move on.

Actually I fully believe that religion should be kept out of schools because of how divisive the nature of religion is. Even if I was a Christian, I'd still believe this and promote it. Because Jesus himself was against this sort of thing. He felt that religion should be a private thing. Here's the verses:Matthew 6 KJV - Take heed that ye do not your alms - Bible GatewayEven at its most benign religion is entirely divisive.Because only the people who properly worship the proper deity get to go to heaven, and nobody else does, no matter how good of a person is. In order to get to heaven, you must follow the tenets of your religion. Nothing else matters.Biblical support of this comes in this verse is in Mark chapter 10.Mark 10 KJV - And he arose from thence, and cometh - Bible GatewayIf you want modern proof I can give you a link to a couple of you tube examples of how divisive it is.School should be a place of learning and safety for children. But because they are a captive audience it makes them a popular target for people of any ideology to target and indoctrinate.Schools should not be for indoctrinating children, regardless of the ideological or religious or political belief. It should be about reading, writing, and mathematics and college should be about job training.

Do you think science should be taught in schools?

Then why are you supportive of the LA law?

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Yes, science should be taught in schools.

{Probably a good analysis, but still non-topic - Adminnemooseus}Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Hide plus note.

{Non-topic material hidden - Adminnemooseus}Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Hide and note.

Tram, quit your sniveling.To all - Please, only messages directly relevant to the topic theme. Otherwise, it's gotten to the "suspensions are going to happen" stage.AdminnemooseusAdded by edit:Gripes relating to moderation? Take it to the "Whine List" topic. Whining in this topic is cause for suspension.Edited by Adminnemooseus, : See above.

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