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Author Topic:   Fox news = false news
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 18 of 313 (616229)
05-20-2011 1:02 PM


While I agree that Fox news out and out lies sometimes, so does the general media. I was raised liberal, and that was due to all the liberal/democratic news I was watching, and learning in school in NYC. As I got older, and starting learning facts about the right and what hey are supposed to stand for, I became independent seeing the truth is in the middle. I even blame the liberal news for getting 3 wheelers unnecessarily banned back in the 80's.
Facts are facts, but I think there is no document written by human hands that isn't biased in some sort of fashion. They are 50million ways of reporting the same story without lying, yet still putting your biased twist to it.
I'm agreeing with you Taz, Fox should be held accountable, and so should every other news agency. How do you do that without interfering with freedom of speech?

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Theodoric, posted 05-20-2011 1:07 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 20 by Taz, posted 05-20-2011 1:19 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 21 by Rahvin, posted 05-20-2011 1:30 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 24 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-20-2011 2:09 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


(1)
Message 25 of 313 (616242)
05-20-2011 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Theodoric
05-20-2011 1:07 PM


Theodoric writes:
I even blame the liberal news for getting 3 wheelers unnecessarily banned back in the 80's.
Reasoning behind this argument please.
Not only the liberal media, but another example of our government telling me what I can, and cannot do.
Before I go into it, I have to tell you that 3 wheelers are a passion of mine, and have been riding them since the 80's. I belong to 3wheeler forums on the net and this topic is discussed frequently. To this day we still ride them and race them. I have read and studied the actual CSPC reports on ATV accidents for all those years.
What we have found it to boil down too was that most liberals are against ATV in general and looked to stop them where ever they can. Still goes on to this day. I live upstate NY next to a 12,000 acre forest and there isn't a legal place to ride here within 180 miles. That is thanks to liberals, and I happen to personally know the people responsible for getting atv's banned in the forest behind my house.
The reports in the CSPC documents showed that while a lot of people were getting hurt on ATC's (atc is a three wheeler, all terrain cycle, atc is an atv) the reason were not always because of the design, which the liberals based their claims off of. The majority of the accidents were due to mis-use on the act by either riding drunk, on the road, or without a helmet. The remainder of "flip-over" accidents where mostly flipping over backwards, which all ATV's do, and not flipping over the front.
The real problem with 3 wheelers was 2 fold.
1. When atc's came out, most people were used to riding motorcycles, but the atc's can't be ridden in the same manor. People would put their foot down when about to tip, and run their own leg over.
2. The dealerships falsely advertised atc's as being easy to ride. They would also sell machines to people who were not qualified to ride, like putting a 10 year old on a 250R that can go 80mph. So you had a whole bunch of people who normally wouldn't go off-roading (probably because their skills wouldn't let them) get attracted to this new and easy way to enjoy off-roading. It's the same thing that bayliners did to the boating world. Made it easy and affordable to put yourself at risk. Then sugar coated it with false marketing.
Those two reasons alone would cause a sharp increase in the amount of injuries in a CSPC report. You had all the experienced riders riding them incorrectly, and then a whole slew of new people riding them with no experience.
I think the correct thing that should have been done was to make the dealerships accountable to sell the right machine to the right person. Not mis-lead people into thinking they are safe, but warn people of how dangerous any kind of off-roading activity can be. There should have also been mandated safety courses, or training courses.
Basically it's not the machines fault. All atv's and off-roading is dangerous. Statistically people get hurt doing just about anything, including crossing the street where do we draw the line? Should it matter if you are doing because you have to, or because you want to? What percentage do we say, ok it's illegal now? It's America, and if you want to sell/buy/ride something, you should be allowed to. If it's governments job to protect us, then they can be the ones to warn us of the impending doom if you choose to ride a three wheeler, not take the freedom away from us. The people who took that away from us I consider un-American. There are still many, many things to do that are legal, and extremely dangerous, why pick on 3 wheelers?
Here is the original report that sparked all of this back when. Notice the inconsistency in the numbers quoted when it comes to injuries, not to mention saying that 3 wheelers are unstable. Last I checked motorcycles are pretty unstable as well. First they say that if you one for 7 years you have a 1 in 3 chance of getting seriously injured or death. Then they go on to say that 2.5 million of them were sold, and only 22,000 people were injured on them in one year. Even if we times 22k x7 years, we don't get 1 in 3. So while the report has a lot of truths in it, it also has a lot of lies. The comparisons they make are not apples to apples, for instance comparing airplane flyers to people who ride off-road. why didn't they compare it to cheer-leading, the most dangerous sport in the world? Instead they picked the safest form of travel. That's biased reporting.
The outcome was that the manufactures under pressure of the government voluntarily stop making them (in fear of getting banned) a ban did not actually take place. The report was so devastating to the sport of 3 wheeling, that people to this day still come up to me when I am riding one and say things like "those things are dangerous" or "aren't those illegal?" People that weren't even born when they were being manufactured ask me that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Theodoric, posted 05-20-2011 1:07 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Taz, posted 05-20-2011 2:32 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 29 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-20-2011 2:44 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 31 by Theodoric, posted 05-20-2011 2:53 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 26 of 313 (616245)
05-20-2011 2:27 PM


Oh, and Taz, politifact.com is a pretty good unbiased web-site for finding out who is lying or not.

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 40 of 313 (616270)
05-20-2011 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Theodoric
05-20-2011 2:53 PM


Theodoric writes:
So where was the liberal media bias you claim.
What we have found it to boil down too was that most liberals are against ATV in general and looked to stop them where ever they can.
Evidence please? Don't you think it is more of a rural/urban divide? Wisconsin and Minnesota or historically very liberal states, we also ahve a huge # of ATV's. I do not see any "liberal" attempt to ban them.
Assertions here but no facts to back them up.
Yes, that is another smart assumption. And if that is true, then most liberals live urban, not rural. So that point only strengthens my case. The people who made that broadcast were liberals. The people who I know that got atv's banned in the forest behind my house are liberals. And no doubt the dumb ass judges that passed the laws were probably liberals too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Theodoric, posted 05-20-2011 2:53 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Theodoric, posted 05-20-2011 4:47 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 43 by Rahvin, posted 05-20-2011 5:10 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 44 of 313 (616274)
05-20-2011 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Theodoric
05-20-2011 4:47 PM


Theodoric writes:
You still have provided no evidence for any of these assertions. Until you do all this is is bullshit coming from your fingers.
The people who made that broadcast were liberals.
Evidence?
It's pretty much common knowledge that liberals and tree hugger type people have headed up everything atv-ban related. This is fact, not something I just made up. I am not gonna get into it. Whether or not liberals have done this or not is really not what we were getting at here, it was how the media reports things in a biased manner. The people who wanted atc banned got it, and they did it by lying.
You really don't think conservative republican type people would be heading up atv ban stuff? Use your head.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Theodoric, posted 05-20-2011 4:47 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by jar, posted 05-20-2011 5:24 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 46 by Rahvin, posted 05-20-2011 5:25 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 47 by Modulous, posted 05-20-2011 5:26 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 48 by crashfrog, posted 05-20-2011 5:36 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 49 of 313 (616281)
05-20-2011 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by jar
05-20-2011 5:24 PM


jar writes:
riVeRraT writes:
You really don't think conservative republican type people would be heading up atv ban stuff? Use your head.
Barry Goldwater was a strong supporter of outlawing dune buggies and motorcycles from many of the wilderness areas. I know because I worked with him when I lived in Phoenix about just that issue.
I never said that someone who wasn't a liberal wasn't capable of being involved in banning atv's. I would even be involved if I thought it was the right thing to do. There should be parts of the woods that do have them banned, I agree with that. But that is the exception, not the norm when it comes to banning atv's. The liberals even went as far as to take a law that prevents children under the age of twelve from having a toy that posses lead, and crossed it over to youth atv's that have lead-acid batteries to start the motors. I mean come-on, were they trying to protect our children, or were they just being assholes? No 12 yr old kid is going to open a lead-acid battery and start eating it. The kids who ride youth atv's are supposed to be supervised anyway, if they aren't then it's the parents fault, not the atv.
NY is a liberal state. We have the toughest atv laws, and the least amount of places to ride, where as states like South Dakota you can ride an atv on everything except the interstate. There is no refuting that liberals (for the most part) head up most of the atv banning type laws. It has always been that way. Those reports on the atc were from CBS news, which has always been liberal/democratic biased. If you live in NY, you just know this.
Next they are working on jetski's and the like. Why don't these people just ban themselves from the earth because every time they shit it stinks, and that offends me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by jar, posted 05-20-2011 5:24 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by jar, posted 05-20-2011 5:52 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 52 by PsychMJC, posted 05-20-2011 5:58 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 62 by ZenMonkey, posted 05-20-2011 6:22 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 77 by Theodoric, posted 05-20-2011 8:18 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 51 of 313 (616283)
05-20-2011 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by jar
05-20-2011 5:52 PM


jar writes:
Twelve year old kids have no business being on an ATV except possibly as a passenger when with a parent.
Twelve year old kids have no business being on a jetski except possibly as a passenger when with a parent.
Excuse me? Who the fuck are you to tell me or my kids what we can and cannot do? Please move to China, and get out of my America. There are absolutely atv's made for kids 12 and under, and we have every right to ride them. Just because thee is a battery on them is not an excuse to let my kids ride.
Now fetus's, they don't belong on atv's so we should just kill them all.
It's shit like this that pisses me off. jar you have absolutely no business to tel me how to live my life, or how to raise my kids.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by jar, posted 05-20-2011 5:52 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 05-20-2011 5:59 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 57 by Rahvin, posted 05-20-2011 6:04 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 55 of 313 (616287)
05-20-2011 5:59 PM


people like
Attention Required! | Cloudflare
Now some of you will look at that web-site and go "omg" while the people with common sense will understand that yes atv's make ruts and trails. No they are not harmful to the forest as a whole. The trails can be moved around so that the growth comes back. Maybe these idiots in the pictures should stop making foot prints because they must be killing something when they walk. But a liberal will look for any reason to have things go their way.
It offends me.

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by ZenMonkey, posted 05-20-2011 6:32 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 78 by Theodoric, posted 05-20-2011 8:27 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 56 of 313 (616288)
05-20-2011 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by jar
05-20-2011 5:59 PM


jar writes:
riVeRraT writes:
jar writes:
Twelve year old kids have no business being on an ATV except possibly as a passenger when with a parent.
Twelve year old kids have no business being on a jetski except possibly as a passenger when with a parent.
Excuse me? Who the fuck are you to tell me or my kids what we can and cannot do? Please move to China, and get out of my America. There are absolutely atv's made for kids 12 and under, and we have every right to ride them. Just because thee is a battery on them is not an excuse to let my kids ride.
Now fetus's, they don't belong on atv's so we should just kill them all.
It's shit like this that pisses me off. jar you have absolutely no business to tel me how to live my life, or how to raise my kids.
Sorry Charlie but guess what, in the US I do have a right to speak.
And guess what Charlie, it ain't YOUR America.
It sure as hell is, and you can't tell me what to do. You are being a hypocrite, you do realize this?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 05-20-2011 5:59 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by jar, posted 05-20-2011 6:04 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 61 of 313 (616294)
05-20-2011 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by PsychMJC
05-20-2011 5:58 PM


PsychMJC writes:
If there was no doubt that it was a liberal crusade, you would have provided FACTS by now. At this rate your facts are starting to look like something I would expect to find in a post by ICANT or Buzzsaw.
That is the fact, there is no need for me to waste my life trying to prove something that everyone knows is true. That wasn't the issue here anyway. The issue is that news sources lie, and not just Fox.
It would be a hard thing to prove anyway, because getting to the bottom of something that is that old is tough. Anne Graham the commissioner of the CSPC at the time was a republican, but she may have forced into making a decision like that off the report made by CBS, and false information about the safety of those machines.
Maybe I shouldn't say liberals, but people who just hate atv's.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by PsychMJC, posted 05-20-2011 5:58 PM PsychMJC has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by PsychMJC, posted 05-20-2011 6:27 PM riVeRraT has replied
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 63 of 313 (616296)
05-20-2011 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Rahvin
05-20-2011 6:07 PM


Rahvin writes:
Apparently our friend rat is not only confused about the role of judges in the legislative process, he's also confused about the freedom of speech and the ability of the state to legally restrict some of his behavior, particularly when it comes to endangering children...
Well enlighten me then, because I am not afraid to learn. It was my understanding that when the CSPC wants to get something banned, it goes to a federal court to decide.
As far as children and ATV's go, I am all for protecting our children, that is why in my post about the atc ban I mentioned that little kids do not belong on big machines. Machines made specifically for the kids is ok. As a parent of 5, I taught all my kids to ride and proud of it. I started them as soon as they wanted to learn. jar has no business telling me how to raise my kids and whether or not they belong on an ATV.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Rahvin, posted 05-20-2011 6:07 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Rahvin, posted 05-20-2011 6:44 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 67 of 313 (616301)
05-20-2011 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by ZenMonkey
05-20-2011 6:22 PM


Re: Logic, please.
ZenMonkey writes:
riVeRaT writes:
There is no refuting that liberals (for the most part) head up most of the atv banning type laws. It has always been that way. Those reports on the atc were from CBS news, which has always been liberal/democratic biased. If you live in NY, you just know this.
So liberals are behind efforts to ban ATVs. Okay. And CBS is somehow being deceptive or showing a liberal bias by reporting this? Seems to me that either CBS is being accurate and unbiased in reporting what the supposedly liberal anti-ATV crowd was doing, or was showing a liberal bias by reporting something somehow untrue about the anti-ATV crowd.
Which is it?
They weren't reporting what the anit-atv crowd was doing. They were the anti-atv crowd. When you report things the way you do with a biased towards one side or the other, that bothers me. News should be as unbiased as possible IMO. You do that by comparing apples to apples, and letting both sides of a debatable topic be heard in a non-threatening environment and leave it to the viewer to decide. That report forever changed the minds of a majority of Americans, most of who knows nothing about 3 wheelers. The rest of us who actually ride them accept the dangers involved, and I have yet to meet one single ATC owner that thinks his atc is more dangerous than a 4 wheeler or a dirt bike. Matter fact after 30 years of riding, I did not get hurt until my 600lb 4 wheeler flipped over on me. Wasn't serious, but it hurt more than any other crash I had on a 3 wheeler. Nothing I couldn't just walk away from and keep going. I've been hurt more playing basketball, falling off a ladder at work, and a car crash I was in a long time ago.
Should I stop breathing because I might get a whiff of the radiation from Japan?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by ZenMonkey, posted 05-20-2011 6:22 PM ZenMonkey has not replied

Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 68 of 313 (616302)
05-20-2011 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by ZenMonkey
05-20-2011 6:32 PM


Re: people like
ZenMonkey writes:
Now who's whining about not having things his way?
For clarity, my way is to at least have a section of forest where people can ride, not the whole forest. I am sensitive to peoples feelings, and understand they don't want to see or hear them. But it is just as much my forest as it is theirs. I pay taxes, and have to register my machines, now give me a place to ride.....responsibly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by ZenMonkey, posted 05-20-2011 6:32 PM ZenMonkey has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by crashfrog, posted 05-20-2011 6:38 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 71 of 313 (616305)
05-20-2011 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by PsychMJC
05-20-2011 6:27 PM


PsychMJC writes:
Yes, you should have. Had you said that, I would have agreed. However, your statement now makes no sense. You start by saying "Duh you morons, it's them liberals doing it, and I don't have to prove shit." Then you switch over as if it were no big deal to say, "Well ok it was people who hate ATVs. I know it was a Republican who was ultimately behind it, but I am SURE she was pressured."
I didn't say it was a republican ultimately behind it. She was just the commissioner(figure head). There were chairmen, and federal courts involved, all influenced and under pressure from the ill-informed American public due to that inaccurate news report.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by PsychMJC, posted 05-20-2011 6:27 PM PsychMJC has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Theodoric, posted 05-20-2011 8:34 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 73 of 313 (616308)
05-20-2011 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by crashfrog
05-20-2011 6:38 PM


Re: people like
crashfrog writes:
For clarity, my way is to at least have a section of forest where people can ride, not the whole forest.
I've never been to a national or state park that didn't have that, already. It's pretty wide-spread especially in the north, where people want wilderness areas to take snowmobiles. Obviously it's part of the same allowance made for powerboats vs. canoes, etc.
So what exactly are you on about?
Here, just in your state:
http://www.trailsource.com/scripts/three.asp?REFERRER=GOO...
Is it really hard for you to find the ATV trails, or something?
Yes, it is. There are no public trails to speak of near me at all, and I have to travel 60 miles or more to get to private land that I could join and ride limited. 180 miles for good land to ride on. I live near Sterling forest, which is on the NY-NJ border 45 miles out of NYC.
The only public riding we have here is to ride on the ice on the lake when it freezes (if it freezes) and that lasts only a month or two depending the winter.
Those forests up north that allow snowmobiles mostly don't allow atv's in the summer. I would have to drive over 4 hours to get to one.
I mean there is like 14,000 acres behind my house, why couldn't they at least open up a few for us to ride, AND maintain. Especially for people that live here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by crashfrog, posted 05-20-2011 6:38 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
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